By Barbara Raab, Senior Producer, NBC News
Welcome to the home of “In Plain Sight,” a special initiative by NBC News to report on poverty in America, especially as it appears in forms and in places that many people overlook or choose to ignore.
With more than 46 million Americans living below the poverty line, including 16 million children, our goal is to put a human face on a problem that often can seem overwhelming.
We also plan to cover efforts to ease or even eradicate poverty. This includes heroic individuals who have devoted their lives to working among the poor and the debate over the proper role of government in fighting the problem.
What, exactly, is "poverty"? According to the U.S. Census Bureau, it's less than $11,945 per year for a single person, and $23,283 for a family of four.
Nearly a quarter of people in poverty have jobs, but their pay is so low that they still don't have enough money to meet basic needs like food, shelter, clothing and health care. It's also worth noting that women are more likely to be poor than men, and African-Americans, Latinos and Native-Americans are more likely to be poor than whites.
An evolving conversation
This nation has been talking about poverty and how to solve it for a long time now.
President Johnson declared a “war on poverty” in his 1964 State of the Union speech. At that time, the poverty rate was 19 percent and the poverty threshold was $1,558 for individuals.
From LBJ's declaration came the American safety net -- programs like Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps and cash assistance. Over the next decade, poverty rates in the U.S. dropped to their lowest level -- 11.1 percent -- since the government began keeping a comprehensive count.
In 1996, President Bill Clinton and House Speaker Newt Gingrich made a deal on what is often called “welfare reform,” with a new emphasis on work and self-sufficiency.
Some hail the overhaul of the welfare system and the subsequent drop in the number of people receiving cash assistance as a huge success. Critics say the safety net has become frayed, with too few getting too little help.
In the lead-up to President Obama’s State of the Union address last month, some of those who believe there’s a lot more work to be done to eradicate poverty in America took to Twitter using the hashtag #TalkPoverty, imploring the president to address the issue and propose solutions. He did not disappoint.
So while the conversation about poverty in America has been going on for decades, it seems to be taking on a new urgency, for women and children struggling to survive (more than half of poor families are headed by single moms), for formerly middle-class families and individuals who have slipped down the ladder, for young people starting out under the weight of crushing student debt.
Share your thoughts
We will explore those and other themes here and on NBC News broadcasts. And we’d like to know your thoughts: What should we be covering, what examples of poverty are you seeing in plain sight? Email us at InPlainSight@nbcuni.com and tweet using the hashtag #inplainsight.
A quick word about me: I am a longtime NBC Nightly News writer and producer, with a background in American history and law, on leave from my position at Nightly to lead this project. I am @bbabbo1 on Twitter.
And a final word about support for this project: The Ford Foundation has made a grant to NBC News to facilitate our reporting on poverty in America, and we welcome their support.
This story was originally published on Mon Mar 4, 2013 9:15 AM EST
Leave a Comment:
define poverty?
define "define".
Poverty it must be a figment of our imagination why else would the government send 50 billion to other countries in foreign aid, rather than to help it's own citizens
The article says what's considered poverty.
And yet when war was declared on poverty, it was $1558 per person per year. Clearly, someone has been moving the goal posts.
$50 billion a year to other countries????? I wish.
We send $150 billion a year to the International Monetary Fund alone.
Then we spend billions and billions on top of that.
$153 billion a year for American Education
$150 billion a year to the I.M.F.
Obama wants to increase that amount.
So if I have $10 million in the bank and don't work, I'm in poverty?
SMH.
John Carter - do you know the difference in cost of living between 1964 and 2013? The "goalpost" wasn't "moved". Anytime you figure a loaf of bread can go back to costing 21 cents and you can buy a house for less than $18,000, and a gallon of gas for 25 cents, we cn push the threshold back down to 1964.
jimboza - no, you would not. the interest on your 10 million puts you over the threshold. Even at 1%, it's still $100K in interest.
Since LBJ declared War on Poverty in the early '60s, the Federal government has spent tens of trillions of dollars a losing war on poverty. Today, American has more poverty than ever, and is known as the 'Food Stamp' nation. If the tens of trillions of dollars were distributed directly to each and every poor Americans, they would all be multi-millionaires.
The War on Poverty has failed because only few of the trillions of dollars reached the poor. The majority of the money were siphoned away through corruption, theft, and waste. The War on Poverty is in effect a war on the American taxpayers, especially the ones of the middleclass who are expected to shoulder the tax burden.
The War on Crime, War on Drugs, and War on Illiteracy failed the same way. Today's War on Terrorism has created more terrorists hating America than before. The Rule of Thumb: Big Federal Government creates more of same when it wages war against it.
Poverty: Hope and change
Synonyms: Peggy the Moocher, George Obama.
If a group of people 55 or older, put together a valid plan and could get ten thousand to join, they could raise ten million dollars with the initial 1000.00 dollar investment. This would be enough to open several fast food franchises, like Chick fillet, five guys etc.or a McDonald's. Then with members putting in a hundred per month they could raise a million every month to do other things, it would not take long to become a wealthy investment group. If they were to have a hundred franchises going, it would generate millions of dollars per year. Any group could do it, even the homeless could if they would work together! Some wealthy group could start something along these lines and use the money to help people in poverty.
You can NEVER end poverty because a certain portion of the public is just too lazy and will not work and another portion is out to game the system. Another portion believes smoking marijuana is more important than maintaining a job and striving to be a success. And, there are various other reasons for poverty that has NOTHING to do with misfortune of life.
You can not legislate success because so many people have no work ethic or morals.
So lets get back to the facts on who the middle class supported in the 2012 Presidential Election. This articles point out that 46 million people are in poverty, that would be 15% of america, we have the infamous 1 percenters, and the remaining 84% are middle class. Obama won 51 percent of the vote, I will assume that 95% of the 15% in poverty voted for the President that means he received the votes of 44% of the american middle class, while Romney received 56% of the vote of americans who are middle class.
Of course not to long ago MSNBC had an article that said the exact opposit, but they seemd to count the entire 99% as the middle class.
You've got a great point, Paws93 . It's not that the wealthier don't necessarily WANT to help the less fortunate, it's that so many have abused and taken for granted the help those of the past have provided. They DO lack work ethics and morals.. sitting in pity-parties with no motivation or drive to get out of that mess. No one is going to carry you through this life.. you've got to help yourself.
Don't get me wrong, there are those that have landed in that situation due to a catastrophy or huge misfortune whether in their job, family, or home. There is much to consider. Unfortunately.. it's like school discipline and military discipline--it only takes ONE to ruin it for the rest.
Well, someone who quits school at fifteen and has four kids by age 25 is going to have a harder time in life than someone with a Master's degree and marries in his thirties for the first time, no question about it.
Our economy is demanding more technically skilled people. We need to educate our kids to compete with those from the rest of the world and become qualified for the available technical jobs. Gone are the days of having only a high school diploma while working an assembly line for thrity years after that. Our kids HAVE to be educatd to compete!
UpstateNY2
Total fail. The middle class is made up of those that are between the wealthy and the workers. The middle class are doctors, lawyers, small business owners, etc... Many of those you consider "rich" are in fact middle class. If you are married with children, pulling down $65K, you are very unlikely to be middle class.
The workers have been loosing ground ever since someone convinced them that they were middle class and they actively started voting against their own interests. It has been going well for the highly skilled professionals though. The middle class is actually doing well.
Compared to some countries but doing terrible compared to others.
Even compared to 2 generations ago the middle class is going downhill fast. It's because of the wealth gap. Two generations ago the middle class worked and made a good living because the money they produced went back to them, today the money they produce goes to the top management.
Poverty is something that spreads fast and perpetuates itself. The best solution is just don't be born into a poor family and you will be OK. Also the prevailing method to be wealthy is to be born wealthy.
Dick-2100935
There you go, confusing the workers with the middle class.
According to the gov'ts CPI that is used to adjust for inflation $1558 in '64 would equate to $11573 in '13. So the figure of $11945 in 2010 does indicate "moving the goalposts." The "poverty" figure should have been $10959
Twenty-three thousand a year isn't much for one person. A single person household isn't cheap either. I understand you are only taking care of yourself instead of dividing that dollar amount four ways. You still have rent to pay or a house payment, gasoline, groceries, insurance, etc...
I'd like to see one elected official live off of $23000.00 for one year. Starting with the clothes on their back, an older used car and a small house or apt. I bet they'd be short on cash at the end of every month.
Birth control and education are the strongest ways to fight poverty.
I say send out the one child police!
Since the big debacle over the budget and taxes, I read someplace where some mega-millionaire American who can't understand why his loop-holes, and corporate welfare should be taken away from him, all at the same time wondering why "those' people can't live on $7.25 and hour and always crying for a pay hike.
That's poverty. The rich getting richer while screwing the poor to death.
Exactly how is that done, "don't be born into a poor family?"
At birth, the things that shape you, you cannot pick, primarily, your birth parents, your country, your city, or your neighborhood!
My state (Connecticut) government released two reports over the last three weeks.
One report stated that 13.75% of our residents are enrolled in government provided health care for the poor..."Husky/Medicaid". It also stated that 38.4% of babies born in our state are brought into this world as funded by the state's "Husky/Medicaid" program. Therefore, the poorest 14% of residents are producing nearly 40% of the babies.
In a government issued report from a week or so earlier, it was stated that in the six poorest cities in our state 57% of hispanic babies and 29% of black babies are born to children age 17 or younger.
"Define poverty" ??? I just did so and also will say that since there is not a single politician who will honestly speak about "the babies", then nothing will happen to stop poverty from growing even worse.
It's all about the babies !
A comment on the above - who say that a faction of poor people are lazy or trying to game the system. That is no doubt true. It is also true that a faction of rich people are thieves or have somehow gamed the system.
The truth is, people get to whatever economic reality they are in for any number of reasons - sometimes of their own doing, sometimes circumstances beyond their control, and sometimes luck - good or bad.
The fact that some poor people are lazy, irresponsible, mooching off the system doesn't mean we, as a country, should take away help for all poor people - not people who do work hard, try hard, do everything right, and still find themselves in poverty. I don't think the most liberal of liberals wants to help a person who believes the world owes him a living. I would not want to help that person. But I'm fine with my taxes going to help those who are truly weak, sick, vulnerable and poor by no fault of their own. We'd be better off figuring out ways to determine who truly needs and who doesn't.
I think poverty today has more to do with the fallout from the Great Recession. Poverty of the past, consisting of those "lazy, pot smoking deadbeats" who'd rather take a handout and barely survive, according to many of the posts above, is what poverty came to represent over the years. Today, there are literally millions of people who once thrived in the middle class and are now scraping by on unemployment, which in and of itself classifies as poverty.
Safety nets in the United States are what differentiate us from 3rd world countries where people live in mud or corregated metal huts with dirt floors. I've been in and out of poverty now for the past 5 years, supporting a family of four. How anyone could say that us "deadbeats" are content to live in poverty and take handouts is beyond me. Let me tell you what - it SUCKS!!!
Nebraska state legislators make 12,000 a session (they rotate between 60 and 90 days session). Those who are younger work other jobs. I know one that works at Target on the side to help make ends.
There are pros and cons to our lawmakers making very little. Quality candidate vs available candidate etc etc
It's difficult to live on $30K a year for one person. Figure in mortgage/rent, car pmt, insurance, utilities, gas, groceries, any loan or credit card pmts, 'incidentals' and already the money's gone. Never mind having money for savings, home improvements/maintenance or any discretionary spending . You wanna know what POVERTY is... try getting injured, getting 'workers comp' which is only 2/3 of your pay and then have your lawyer taking 25% of that off the top each paycheck. OUCH.
LBJ's War on Poverty, was an unmitigated, total and complete, colossal failure. Prior to the WOP, one of the fastest growing segments of U.S. society was the Black Middle Class. Our current system is modern slavery, designed to keep people dependant on the government boob, and their liberal plantation owners. The system destroys initiative and self respect. It must be abolished.
But it gets votes...as intended, thus won't be changed by those in charge who are getting those votes in the first place.
Hey, the simple fact that someone is poor is defacto evidence that they are lazy and unworthy of help.
Just ask any hedge fund manager.
Poverty, what President Obama wants every honest American Citizen to achieve!
And just think Connecticut is ranked 45 out of 50 in the least "pro-life," state. But that's what you'll want right, pro-life, or is that just for white babies?
LOL....The stupidity on some of these boards is overwhelming, but coming from a bubba, what else would you expect....LOL
Unemployment is up because the demand for jobs is high and
the supply of jobs is low.
OK, regulations are up and new job starts are down. Taxes are up and new job starts are
down. And U.S. loses in competition for
the location of new manufacturing facilities also as a result of more
attractive foreign competition less burdened by regulations and taxes than the
U.S.
Assuming government won't come off their high horse on
regulations and taxes, it follows that the jobs picture won't improve.
So, participation will stay depressed unless all Americans
agree to share equally the job supply.
This could happen as a result of going to, say, a 30 hour work week, and
spreading the jobs that we do have around amongst everybody.
When everybody participates then everybody pays taxes plus
everybody is not on welfare.
A recent report (this winter) compared poverty in the US as compared to poverty in other countries. I can't remember exactly how to find the report but it could be found. Search Fox News.
What sticks out in my memory is that 74% of families living in poverty in America own at least one flat screen TV and at least one gun. Compare this with Kenya, for example, where no families living in poverty own a flat screen TV and a gun.
There is a big problem with having a "national" poverty level. Cost of living is hugely different depending on where you live. When rent in one place costs $1000/ month and the same place is $500/ month elsewhere, that's a huge discrepency. People from California sell their crappy little 2 bedroom house for $500,000 and move somewhere like Utah and buy a 10 bedroom 5 bath mansion with money to spare. Another good reason why the Fed should leave these things up to the states.
mosh...
Your crystal ball needs a tune up...I've never been called "pro-life" by anyone but you. I am extremely pro-"don't have babies you cannot raise", however. And you can infinitely stuff the "just white babies" garbage.
I guess anyone who doesn't think like you simply has to be a bigot or a dummy and that makes you feel better.
For all the Bible-quoters, remember to look at the whole counsel and not just the parts that suit your point of view.
Your quotations while accurate are only half the story:
"We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”
"We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat. And as for you, brothers and sisters, never tire of doing what is good.
Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.
2 Thessalonians 3:9-17
Mitty....
Just had that same discussion this morning in regards to 'minimum wage'. Easy for Mr. Obama to pocket cheap votes by standing at a podium and say that the minimum wage needs to be raised for all. But that is a state issue. Cost of living varies widely across the land.
The problem now is that we have a federal government wanting to take thngs over from the states and here in Connecticut, we have a state governor wanting to take thngs over from the towns.
These are dangerous times !
The President's strategy is to devise programs that funnel private sector revenues and profits into govt programs.
Interesting point, Scott. 74% of the poor have a flat screen TV and a gun. I don't think it is the flat screen TV they are worried about. Hmmmm.....
The government wants to do cuts on poverty help programs, but they also want to go after the guns. Coincidence? I think not. They would probably prefer we be like those unarmed Kenyans Scott mentions. That way it would be easier to cut programs without resistance.
Don't think for a minute that those devious politicians aren't up to something. Both Republicans and Democrats are in on it. There is a New World Order that would like to get the poor, old, and sick people out of the way. I heard on the PBS Newshour that there is some sort of treaty with the E.U. that kicks in in a couple of years. I do not know what is in it exactly, but I have my suspicions. Notice how there is a pattern that is happening everywhere. After the European Union was formed, the member countries started dismantling many of their social safety nets and implementing austerity to conform to some economic rule of the E.U. Greece is really at the bad end of this as is several other E.U. countries. Isn't it funny that now they want to do something similar here? I somehow do not think this is a coincidence. I suspect that those who want to do draconian budget cuts are secretly conforming to some secret agreement with the E.U. The gun control measures are probably part of that also.
I am glad, however, that NBC wants to do more reporting on poverty issues. This is long over due.
Poverty can never be eliminated because it is tangible. What is "poverty"? Can't be defined.
We call poverty those on the lower end of the financial spectrum but there will ALWAYS be a "bottom 10%" for example. Those we call in "poverty" would be considered middle class in many countries. We have those in poverty with roofs over their heads, cars, refrigerators, cell phones, and even flat screen tv's. That's not to say we can't try to help but simply clarifying that poverty is a state of mind.
My father-in-law grew up a sharecropper's son in south Georgia. For those who don't know what that is it is a person so poor they can't even afford the land they farm. They offer to farm an owner's land and in exchange allowed to live on the property and take a small portion of the farmed items for themselves and/or sell to market. He would tell me often "we didn't know we were poor". He didn't have running water or an inside bathroom until in his teens. Poverty is a state of mind.
So how do we help those in poverty? Not giving them free food and money without sacrifice in exchange. Like the bible says "give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime". Let's teach those in poverty "how to fish" or, in other words, let's teach them to better themselves. In exchange for financial assistance they must attend classes to learn how to use a computer or even to learn how to read. Teach them how to manage money. In exchange for food assistance they must spend 5 hours per week cleaning up their areas (parks, sidewalks, etc.).
Teach them pride. Teach them motivation. When you "give" assistance in the name of helping them you are actually hurting them. But we see what happens when "giving" stuff is the goal. Just look at LA, Detroit, Chicago, or Camden. Lower taxes, motivate society, and teach them pride in community and society will fix these government caused problems.
The Empress-409341 Post # 1.40 - question is...to whom will the burden be placed to balance or budget? Humm...I wonder who will pay? Sacrifice? Austerity!
The entire lack of responsibility of our leaders for decades now to eliminate hunger and poverty with jobs that could pay a livable wage for an individual and for a family is testimonial to the squalor in morals of our government and business leaders....outsourcing....as it has come to be. The docile dim- citizen is too myopic to see how tawdry and cheap our the lives most of the lives in. The worlds richest country in the world's history, the division of wealth so concentrated...no country even comes close to the United States in wealth.
The austerity measures congress seems unwilling to deal out the pain, disregarding the tens and tens of millions holding on to life vis food stamps and reporting to the ER for routine injuries...forget the children it seems...what will probably be an is limited ER hours The austerity measures; meaning ER's will close for those with not money our in the Ryan plan....we will not be so drastic but pain is coming. Only one measure of many to follow will be the sales taxes to hit us among really other really nasty measures (Ryan's plan is only a working model). Has anyone been paying attention to the Ryan blue print for America? .....this giant swath of America in poverty already will be asked to "sacrifice" but so is everyone else.....excepting the 1% to %10 pecent and our corporations....the wealthiest, collectively, the bakers and shakers of your lives.
BTW: Suicide rates went up so fast so high the act being so common in Greece after the "austerity" programs started to kick in, a new term came to be, namely "The Greek Solution"...just sayin" For those interested in our current sucide numbers....hold your breath...much higher than I dreamed them to be.
www.afsp.org/index.cfm?page_id=04ea1254-bd31-1fa3-
c549d... www.afsp.org/index.cfm?page_id=04ea1254-bd31-1fa3-
c549d77e6ca6aa37
The latest data available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention indicates that 38,364 suicide deaths were reported in the U.S. in 2010. This is the latest ... We would expect that number to be heading north. 700,00 attempts approx. - one military service person per day...our soldiers.
Have a great day!!
The statement "Poverty" is very deceptive. There are at a dozen ways to gauge what is poverty and none do a very good job of defining it. But the way this country is being run adds to the existing social idea of poverty. Our brightest minds still can't figure out how to eliminate povertyand our socialist/communist folks are sure that if we slide to the left a little more the issue will cure it self. Well, we've listened to this rap for the last 80 years and have seen the results of that experiment fail time and time again and each time leaving millions more poor and in poverty than before. There are always going to be some in poverty, our responsibility is to see if we can create avenues escape for those who are.
If you are a "Christian" you would really try to understand Jeshua's teachings about the poor and helping those in need. Also the wealthy are NOT GOING TO HEAVEN according to the scriptures!
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
There are many teachings in the Bible about helping the poor which too many Christians seem not to know:
Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God. Hebrews 13:16
“If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. Deuteronomy 15:7-8
Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. Luke 12:33
... “Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.” Luke 3:11
And two of my personal favorites:
Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. Acts 4:32
And all who believed were together and had all things in common. And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. Acts 2:44-45
Poverty is a statistic. How large is the sampled population? " In the world of the blind, the one eyed man is king. " We're certainly not comparing the US to Haiti are we? Are we comparing the population to the various nations amount of debt? Income hardly matters if it is based instead on what you owe. A person who makes $6000 a year and owes $500, is in money terms far better off than a person who makes a million a year yet owes a million assuming both incomes stop abruptly.
Assuming that incomes don't stop abruptly, an engineering student in college who graduates with a degree, even though at graduation he might qualify as under the poverty cut off line, twenty years hence might find them as a multimillionaire. Hetti Green the famous tightwad who inherited a fortune made in the days of whaling ships and whale oil lamps, wouldn't give a dime to a beggar, and is an example of one despised long after her death, as well as in life, though she'd hardly be one to qualify as poverty stricken, even though she hardly changed her clothes and lived primarily on oatmeal.
The politics of poverty is making a chosen population feel sorry for themselves. It must be compared to another population which appears to be much better off. To be considered rich in this day and age requires a personal wealth in excess of $500,000,000. At this level of income, and up into the billions, you're comparing the individual rich person to the wealth of nations. What constitutes poverty? What constitutes wealthy? Those are the statistical parameters of the bell curve to look at.
Americans know what is the underlying factor that has caused massive job losses. The primary perpetrator is "computers". Think about it, you could go into any business and see clerks busy typing, filing, using microfiche projectors to view files on record, or talking to a customer on a phone, like real human interaction use to be. How many times have you been so frustrated at listening to an automated answering machine that tells you to go through two or more menus on the phone. So frustrated, you wanted to throw the phone through the window. Remember when we used to see phone booths near a street corner or next to a convenience store? Try to find one of them now. We get customers all the time asking if they can use our business phone. The first day of the automated era was the beginning of the end for the human labor force. We have been replaced by robots in many of the factories; and why not, they don't make mistakes, they don't get sick, and they certainly do not go on strike. And who is to blame for this, we are, everyone of us that used it or bought it. Poverty will not get better; it will most certainly get worse.
What was that famous quote: "I have finally met the enemy, and he is us!" Who would have thought that technology would actually help fuel the poverty in this country?
Poverty is a natural phenomenon in a class society. It does not need to be eliminated. What there needs to be, is opportunity for people to get out of poverty through being productive. And that is a problem because of government welfare.
All bums are going to heaven.
List of people going to hell: Bill Gates, Anelina Joli, Warren Buffett, Spike Lee, John Kerry, Barbara Streisand, Michael Bloomberg, Diane Feinstein, Koch Brothers, Dixie Chicks, George Soros, Donald Trump, Tom Hanks, Nancy Pelosi, Ted Turner, Sean Penn.
Steve Jobs is already in hell.
We have no formal class society like the historical caste systems of India and England. Income mobility is what makes the US the "land of opportunity". Or so we're told.
Someone soaking welfare isn't going to be productive even if you take it away. They'll just be the problem of their employer.
Correct Pragmatic, once on the taxpayer funded freebies they do not want to get off because it's "easy" money and perks. To me it goes to the way they were raised by irresponsible and unaccountable parents. They have NO shame.
So if poverty is based in religion, go to the churches for assistance since they have plenty of wealth. When a church can afford to pay millions of dollars to a single individual because of the illegal and immoral actions of its leaders, then surely a church can provide a loaf of bread and a couple of fish.
God never intended to for the rich to support the poor. "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime."
There are ALWAYS going to be people who are satisfied with the standard of living thast is solely supported by social programs. They have learned how to subside on the government giveaways and willingly accept that.
Abby-1588585, what you missed in your reflections is the term “brother.” In every verse you quoted, which are great verses by the way, the believers shared among their fellow believers. They gave alms to the poor and shared what they could when they could, but when it came to sharing all that they had, that was done between believers. Christians, in and of themselves, cannot cure what ails the secular world, only God can do that, however He requires the secular world’s participation. Where people disavow God’s existence, they can expect to see things continue to fall apart. All we Christians can do is help where we are able and tell the secular world about God’s love while working to ensure that Christ’s followers have what they need to survive.
Maybe when you expect the "Christians" occupying offices in corporate America and Wall Street to behave as Christ taught, we would see less people run over and abused in their ruthless pursuit of profit. If people who want to work and be self-sufficient can't find jobs or at least jobs that pay enough they don't have to make the decision to pay the rent or eat, we would find less poverty. But to claim that all people in poverty are there because they are just lazy does not recognize the reality of our current economic state...corporations are eliminating or moving overseas most decent paying jobs leaving the regular American with few choices to work for a decent living.
Why would the "rich" want to go to heaven? It will be full of all those..."poor" people.
Thinker: Chinese, not Bible.
Class mobility--for a long time upward mobility (moving from poverty to middle class) has been quite a bit lower in the US than in traditionally class-bound societies such as Britain.
Technology: that is an issue, and with education costs rising far, far higher than earnings it is even more of an issue.
cost of living: when I graduated h.s. in 1972 I could buy 4 gallons of gas on one hour of minimum wage employment. Try that today.
Remember when H. Ross Perot said in the presidential debate " You will hear a giant sucking sound". That is jobs going overseas because of the world trade agreement.
Also, mechanization of everything combined with too many people.
Also, kids do not study. They maintain their ignorance, sit and fool with their cell phones while eating junk food and getting fat.
Public schools are a joke. Education is the key to freedom (as in having money through better pay allows choices) But if people sit on their azz who is going to support them?
“Despite the widespread belief that the U.S. provides exceptional opportunities for upward mobility, these data show that parental wealth has an important role in shielding offspring from downward mobility and sustaining their upward mobility in the U.S. no less than in countries like Germany and Sweden, where parental wealth also serves as a private safety net that not even the more generous European public programs and social services seem to provide.”,Fabian Pfeffer, a sociologist at the U-M Institute for Social Research (ISR).
Poverty in our nation is a function of our economic system. In order for capitalism to work wealth must accumulate in the hands of a few allowing them to take risk and invest in a coordinated way that would be much more difficult and less likely if you were trying to do it with hundreds or thousands of small investors. We as a society benefit from this function with jobs and other smaller business opportunities. However at any point in time there is a finite amount of wealth available based on our population. As such, when our system works the way it should it will naturally create poverty. We will never end poverty, the question is how much is acceptable? When the wealth gap grows and the middle class shrinks the pit falls of the economic disparity of a less regulated capitalist system become more apparent. Yet, there is no system better for addressing the majority of poverty if we are careful and diligent at looking out for those whom the system disadvantages.
And this is why we have baristas with MBA's.
Dan Quayle, the guy everyone loved to laugh at, got the last laugh (not that this is funny).
NOW we have the statistics that shows the strong correlation and possible causation between poverty and single-parenting.
Sorry, Murphy Brown.
For all the Bible-quoters, remember to look at the whole counsel and not just the parts that suit your point of view.
Your quotations while accurate are only half the story:
"We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”
"We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat. And as for you, brothers and sisters, never tire of doing what is good.
Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.
2 Thessalonians 3:9-17
All I see are a lot of government barriers to people who need to work. Every societal ill nowadays has a lot of laws. You name it, its there. In fact, I can't even think of one thing that has not been ridden into the ground by beurocrats. You want jobs? then start allowing people to move into them. All this educational bull cr ap has never put one person to work. People need opportunity to work to get out of poverty. Its the differnce between capitalism and communism.
Like mandatory drug tests for basic jobs. When they started that they said Airline pilots and Brain surgeons .
Now cleaning garbage cans or mopping floors all takes drug tests. Makes it hard to job hunt. Just one more barrier.
Ah, don't do drugs, just a guess here
To get people out of poverty and into jobs you need to eliminate minimum wage. The current minimum wage is a HUGE barrier to entry!
Please explain your theory? By removing the minimum wage standard we would pave the way for companies to hire at lower wages, thus creating more people in poverty. Lowering wages won't significantly decrease the prices of goods sold, it will just increase profits. Furthermore, ending minimum wage will make more people have less disposable income, thus slowing of the economy. The problem with wages isn't the amount of wages being paid, but the added benefits, i.e. vacation pay, sick pay, and healthcare coverage. If we want to create more jobs for people, then we should create a universal healthcare program for all Americans to be paid for via the Medicare/Medicaid tax already taken from all workers. This would considerably lower the cost of hiring new people for small businesses and corporations.
That there is some awesome thinking Don! Ya nailed it!
Instead of them getting an actual job and doing actual work, lets just keep them unemployed til some Miracle 20.00/hr job drops out of the sky.... And in the mean time, the government can FULLY support them. Let's not let them get experience in the workforce and an opportunity to advance. Just because someone is hired at minimum wage doesn't mean they are going to make that forever. (unless they are worthless, and then that's what they deserve.
God forbid we try to create MORE jobs and instead of trying to fix all our problems by taking things from people
I'm more than willing to give ASSISTANCE to WORKING people work maintain a good work record and a clean criminal record.
Hate to break this to ya comrade, but you're not gonna make it to your blessed Panacea, AKA Single Payer. More self reliant people have to die before you'll get that crap through
Drug testingn of employees in private industry is not part of bureaucratic red tape. When an employer hires an individual the employer takes on a legal responsibility fot the employees actions. Why would an employer hire a drug suckin criminal (since unprescribed medications are illegal) and take on that burden?
Want a job that may have drug testing, don't take drugs.
In 1990 a job that paid $50K a year, would now need to pay $92,500 to keep up with inflation during that same time. That hasn't happened. Real incomes have been declining for decades, especially since we completely abandoned the gold standard in the 70's. The cost of living goes up a couple percentage points every year, but "experts" tell us "moderate inflation is good." Somehow 7% inflation is bad in one year, but 3.5% for two years is just fine and dandy. Inflation may be a good thing for the owners of the capital, because it allows them to cut payroll costs simply by giving annual raises less than the rate of inflation, but it screws the working class.
We don't have poverty problem, we have a money problem. Fiat currency is at the root of this problem.
Regarding minimum wage, in 1964 it was $1.25/hour, and if paid in quarters, the melted value of those quarters would be $26.21 at today's silver prices. Again, minimum wage isn't the problem either, our currency is.
I was in poverty for 25 years. I am smart and had a good education thru high school. I couldn't get thru college for a long time. To say that people in poverty are stupid or lazy is inaccurate. I wasn't stupid or lazy. I managed my money well, but I was smart enough not to get into debt. Thru the federal student loan system I was finally able to get thru college and get a computer science degree. What was wasted was the 25 years I could have been much more productive. Education does make a stronger America. It makes a stronger world. We need to continue to offer free education and low interest college loans to stay strong.
You people do realize that decent paying jobs are disappearing? This has been happening for some time, but the Great Recession accelerated the trend. Corporations have to make increasing profits every quarter to make Wall Street happy. To make that happen in a mature industry (which most of our industries now are), they cut their biggest costs...labor. We can eliminate benefits and minimum wages and they might create jobs here or move them back from Asia...but unless prices drop as well, we will just end up with more people having to make basic decisions like "...should I pay the rent or eat? Maybe my kids can eat white bread with ketchup and I can pay the heating bill..."
Look at other countries that have no labor laws and the effect this has on their main population. They are forced to work in dirty, unsafe and often dangerous environments with little pay while those in charge (just a few) live in great wealth. Is this how we want to live too? America is gradually tilting to favor the few at the expense of the many and too few are recognizing this. Instead, they are all dazzled by the stories of the few who have made it and can only see dollar signs dancing in their eyes created by the false promise they can have that too....if they only work harder and harder.
And this is why Wal Mart has programs to assist their employes in applying for public aid programs.
Of course it's accurate. Based on many posts here today the fact that you're poor is proof that you're lazy and/or stupid.
The problem with poverty is it takes two middle class workers to keep one person in poverty! Food stamps, health care, shelters, you think the rich are paying for that.
One thing that might help is limiting the number of years crimes stay on the record of people who were incarcerated. It's hard for former inmates to break the cycle of poverty when the system is DESIGNED to make it hard for them thrive under the pretense of protecting the public.
Many of them come out and want to get their lives straight - but the deck is stacked against them. It's hard to get a clean, decent place to live if you can't pass a criminal background check. It's hard to get a good job if you can't pass a criminal background check. That's why so many (not all, mind you) are so easily dragged back into the same mess they came out of. It's often all that's available to them.
Men and women who come out ready to start fresh have huge barriers for starting a decent life anew.
Perhaps we should treat criminal records like credit reports. Except for the most heinous crimes, former inmates should get a clean slate after awhile.
Maybe we even make it graduated. After 2 years, petty thefts and non-violent offenses disappear from background checks. After 7 years, other non-violent offenses could disappear.
What can we do to make it easier for inmates who demonstrate readiness for positive, productive change to get that opportunity?
Marie said:
You said it perfectly, Marie. I would add one more thing: When it comes to the point where they are paying workers pennies while the rich make fortunes, the system freezes up. Who is going to buy all this stuff that is produced if no one has money? They try certain bags of magic tricks to keep it going like little tweeks of the interest rates or some new speculative bubble; but eventually the tricks run out. Then what? Are we close to the whole system crashing down?
One thing that got me to wondering is something I heard on sixty minutes this last Sunday. Something really weird is going on in China, the economy that everyone praises as so dynamic, the one that capitalists want to put their hope in. They are literally building whole cities where no one lives at all. Most average Chinese are way too poor to buy $50,000 or $100,000 dollar condos. In fact, the shacks of the poor Chinese are being destroyed to make room for all these empty buildings. So why do they keep building them? The better off Chinese buy several of them as an investment somehow believing they will make money on real estate (sell it to someone else eventually). In other words, they have a real estate bubble on steroids. They make our last real estate bubble look like nothing. So what happens when this blows up? What will its effect be on the world economy?
Brace, brace, brace, a doozy of a collapse is coming. (What a pity. It might mess up the New World Order.) A lot of people will find out what being poor means.
The poor will always be with us. Let them eat cake. Some know how to work the system. They are communist/socialist who only want to steal our money. Yet, some still die in the streets. Here, in Asheville, North Carolina. John Suliot (jsuliot@gmail.com)
You have no idea about what you are talking about. All this blame communism/socialism is brainwashing. Read Das Kapital by Marx and give me a complete report. You obviously have been watching Fox News and other conservative spin news to get your biased news reporting.
Yes, don't watch FOX NEWS for info, read Karl Marx. LMFAO.
You laugh because more than likely like all knee jerk anti-commie types you've never even read any Karl Marx at all. But of course you know what socialism or communism is because you HAVE watched Fox News, right?
To be clear, we don't have communism in this country. End of story. Socialism on the other hand, is becoming more and more prevalent. Socialism as Marx described it will evolve from a capitalistic economy naturally. There is no question this is happening. The question is whether or not it is a function of the natural evolution of a society or whether our economy/society is being guided that direction. I contend that we are collectively not very well informed as voters and are easily swayed by the Utopian promises that accompany socialistic wealth redistribution schemes. We don't even bother to read the scientific criticisms of socialism, we ignore all the logical flaws in the arguments which favor socialism. In our collective ignorance, we are the cause of socialism; it is not a predetermined destiny.
Socialism is an outgrowth of capitalism, because capitalism unfettered breeds corruption, which people mainly abhor. So how do we create a balance between greed and fairness?
Marie485962
That capitalism is flawed, isn't sufficient reason to abandon a system which is responsible for the creation of almost the entire wealth of the western world, nor is it sufficient reason to adopt another system which has been shown to lead to the destruction of societies.
So DingleB, you're saying that what we need is pure, unregulated, survival-of-the fittest capitalism?
Let the weak die?
John with cake at least they would have something to eat.
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Keep what works and re-work what doesn't.
Why are people so limited in their thinking that they only know how to think in extremes?!
Technology has killed jobs. Whatever happend to human labor. There used to by typists,file clerks,secretaries,people who worked without the need of "advanced technology". Some fields need technology (doctors,construction,machinery) but Office Work has been corruped by "green" (use of less paper). Actually when typewriters were around and file were in cabinets, there was reuse of paper and trees were replanted and regrown. This obsession with "green" by using computers has killed a lot of Office jobs. People are no longer communicating face to face but by a phone or webcam. Yes, there was meetings conducted via satellite. Now doctors are being replaced by robots to their work. We need to reemphasize human labor. Also outsourcing jobs overseas is the worst America had done. The early 1940's through 1960-3 were good times for jobs in America. Also there was a time when Colleges cared about students academic achievements and helped them pursue careers. Now it's about getting loans and paying the schools back and they could care less about their students getting a job. It's "you owe us $100,000 or else!" I disagree about certain fields not getting jobs. There are fields with an arts degree out there but it's the timing and the economic situation that's preventing these jobs from being filled. I speak over 10 languages and never been through College because I went through a trade school, took out a student loan and graduated but never did find a career because of the potential employer saying I had lack of expericence even though I received a diploma in that field. I ended up in default and then eventually get it discharged due to the school being fraudulent and a scam.
You can't trust the education system to a point to find you work after you get a degree/certificate/diploma. We need to go by system that can see your abilities and not the paper you received. Most interviewers for jobs are ill prepared and not experienced themselves as they tend to be ignorant about hiring laws and policies.
Such a shame people get jobs based on looks and not ability or talent. I have seen attractive women get jobs because of looks alone, but they couldn't do the job they were hired. I go to a bank that has a huge turnover. Why? Incomptent attractive people who were hired by appearances. It happens and it needs NOT to happen.
So where's that job banging rocks together to build a fire?
Robert Y,Great comments.
Another job that will be lost totally within the nxt ten years will be meter readers.About 10 years ago there were over 50,000 meter reader jobs but due to computers and companies replacing old style meters with new digital ones, it has been reported that within the next ten years there will be no need for meter readers.
I wish we would do away with parking meters all together. Pay to park on a public street????? Not so Free Country.
Technology has killed jobs? Are you nuts? Technology has freed up labor for more productive things.
Jimbozo........Like what? Technology has killed millions of jobs. Robotics has eliminated manufacturing jobs at an unbelievable rate.....now what do those people do? Remember, the more jobs you eliminate the fewer customers you have. Jobs that used to be done by hundreds of people are now done by one.....or no one. And GREED by those at the top is the number one driver. The wealth disparity qualifies us as an oligarchy, look it up.
Robotic manufacturing hasn't killed as many jobs as cheap labor has.
My guess is the printing press, invented in 15??, was the first great step in technology; a bad idea, huh?????
So, technology is the evil job destroyer. Why are you posting with your computer on the internet?
Hypocrit.
How does using a computer to point out something that completely true make them a hypocrite?
Technology has bred jobs that people who used to do menial manufacturing simply aren't qualified to do...
There's nothing humble about your opinion.... or valuable in this case
Technology has created lots of jobs. Human greed is what destroys them.
Look at the new Amazon warehouse, totally automated. It only needs something like 10 people 24/7 to be there. In previous years, there would have been probably hundreds of workers. We are in the period of time such as the Industrial Revolution when the old style jobs disappeared. What will be the jobs of the future is anyone's guess.
So maybe the solution is to eliminate all public assistance programs. When all those poor and unemployed people die of starvation, exposure, or both we can get the economy booming again.
Leaves more for the rest of us, right?
Why does your every post end with those who aren't in agreement with you must want somebody else to die ?
Maybe because without food and health care, people die.
All this is simply lip service. There is no need for any American to go without fulfillment of their basic needs. We need to take care of those here at home before sending any taxpayer money overseas. Those of you who try to buy your way to heaven with good deeds need to do those deeds for your neighbors. Not some foreigners who will raise the kids you paid for to hate the people of the USA. Take care of home 1st. The rest will be there, with their hands out, when we have fixed our own problems.
Amen, Wallace! The first intelligent comment on here.
isolationism got us into WWI and WWII. Do we really need to experiment again with a failed policy?
Exactly, because as well all know over the past few decades, putting our noses into other peoples business has worked out so well.
Touche, 'chuck' !
The total number of military and civilian casualties in World War I was over 37 million.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties
World War II fatality statistics vary, with estimates of total dead ranging from 50 million to over 70 million.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
As of 16 January 2013 (2013-01-16)[update], there have been 3,169 coalition deaths in Afghanistan as part of ongoing coalition operations (Operation Enduring Freedom and ISAF) since the invasion in 2001.[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_casualties_in_Afghanistan
There is your history lesson for the day Chuckzul. It's the difference between a haircut and decapitation. Evil people try to do evil things, but when we nip it in the beginning, the losses are much lower.
The decrease in causalities has nothing to do with the righteousness of the cause or the theory of early intervention. We have better medical treatment and better weapons than we did in World War II.
And yet, capecodmom, we have maimed and mentally ill soldiers coming back from those wars. Luckily not as many as if we had WWIII.
In many instances you will find the cause as being people having children who have no business having children and in many others, sheer laziness and no work ethic. There are many legitimately poor people and I think that those should be helped. The others? The hell with them. If you want to take care of their children, take them away from their parents and give them a chance at a decent life instead of creating more poor people.
Rush? Is that you?
This is one of the reasons used to justify the eugenics programs in this country. Many states forcibly sterilized people (mostly poor black women) from the 1930s to the 1970s. Eugenics is the justification used by the Nazis to exterminate the Jews, in case you didn't know.
I assume you're willing to open your home to one of these children? How about two? How about five? I assume each family member of yours will do their part?
Pragmatic -
So, you feel that we should be made to support all of the baby mommas that don't know how to say no to the baby daddies?
How about we tell them no for once and to suffer the consequences of their own actions?
We just need to take away the economic incentive for having all these kids. Do away with EIC, do away with child tax deductions (for more than 2). No more SNAP for more than 2, etc.
Why Tammy! So proud you're a woman! It would NEVER have to be a MAN who should say no to sex should it? ALWAYS the woman's fault that a baby exists. It's pure logic! I do recall the BIBLE stating that Mary pretty basically did it herself TOO! Virgin births EVERYWHERE!
Many here ignored the fact that the implementation of welfare actually drove DOWN poverty. There is a huge loss of jobs in this country, much at the hands of false investment (amazingly so few realize that investments aren't even speculation-bad enough- but are PURELY popularity driven, thus any sudden move to an alternate investment will tank ANY company!) with IMMEDIATE profit being the sole criteria invovled and not long term intelligence. It's pretty much a huge DUH that when companies lay off 10's of thousands of jobs in order to "prove" an immediate numbers based profit JUST to satisfy Wall street, they've cut off their own noses to spite themselves in the loss of consumers to continue driving any market.
Universal Health Care is a FAR wiser idea than the limping imitation Obamacare with Supreme Court endorsed FORCED purchase of unrestricted private insurance. And Minimum wage has kept a balance in most other western developed countries so LONG as it is in keeping with TRUE cost of living and not the joke of a formula that has come about in the U.S. current COLA. No one can substitute a shirt for FOOD, Obama, what a JOKE. And to ask someone to substitute an APPLE for a box of crappy fake cheese macaroni puts the huge burden on a total failure of an also unregulated health system (to include for-profit hospitals, pharmaceuticals charging unfettered prices in the U.S. while amazingly capped in the rest of the world, and to include the exorbitant cost of health insurance.)
Deregulation engendered the current poverty status in the U.S. People in their 70's (an article on the MSN news provider) who'd already paid OFF their homes and HAD savings, are falling into severe debt, with most of this caused by health costs. The airline industry is rampant with fees, as is the banking industry which HAS exceeded the definition of usury in the Constitution, the insurance industry gleefully gobbling up over half of a person's pay runs amok while the proud Congressional parents look on. This Deregulation occurred under Clinton. Who happily signed the bill. Bush hopped on board with Clinton's tactic of the housing bubble, (Clinton knew the false euphoria he would create, yet did it anyway in hopes that the following presidency would catch that he needed to turn the faucet off) and that created the housing debacle, ALSO unregulated in the forms of investment.
Single mothers struggling to care for their children as fathers walk away and Governors stating that MEN need the money more than WOMEN is a huge issue, when 51% of the people in this country are women who have little to no representation, or idiots who will lambast a mother for having a child and women has having the SOLE responsibility when sex is involved. None talk of snipping every man, only of sterilizing women, or making WOMEN pay for the baby that ensued ALL while emphatically pursuing abortion bans.. leaving women no exit except for torment and no other.
The statistics in Europe show that the wealthiest are not in excessive percentage higher than the middle class earner, yet in the U.S. the gap is abysmal, this is due to deregulation, due to the false shell game of Wall Street, and due to everyone hopping into envestments via 401k during the 90's and forcing companies to show profits when the stability of zero losses wasn't good enough.
What else is wrong? Unregulated food in the U.S. with products being dumped in, and hidden behind complex names, or an FDA that refuses to accept moral responsibility for the drugs and chemicals it unleashes on trusting Americans.
the "lazy stupid" are actually a very, VERY low percentage. The "want to be productive and still have enough to feed the family are demanding a return to morality and opportunity. Morality equalling jobs actually PAID what they are worth and not being forced to take on 5 people's jobs in a layoff, or to take a salary when work time is 90+ hours a week.
A standoff with big oil would be helpful here, if we're subsidizing then they should come down in price, otherwise where's the need for subsidizing a huge company making record profits on a yearly basis? 58 Billion needs a subsidy?
Want more solutions? why aren't we turning to solar? THAT could use a subsidy. Why are we subsidizing corn to the hilt when corn is NOT humanly digestible, you're hiding it in EVERYTHING food wise? Why are we all pretending this is all POOR people's fault for being poor. There isn't a soul who enjoys poverty, it is incredibly stressing to figure out how to come up with money for food for the month, or how to pay for the heat in the dead of a winter storm. For those who think it's an endless handout, it's not, the "average" although I've not met anyone who gets that amount, foodstamps are around 200 a month, haven't met ANY single person who can live on that, but that 200 is feeding more than one person. Rent is climbing astronomically as more houses are foreclosed on, and no one seems to care a whit that insuarnce and pharmaceutical companies charge ever more each year. I read an idiot "professional review" where a female medical reviewer claimed the the hike in insurance costs was justified. In a time when LESS Americans are using it. Makes sense to me! REGULATE AGAIN you MORONIC CONGRESS! And regulate the CRAP out of Wallstreet so there aren't massive runs on market all the time.
Interesting how the poorest states also have the fewest people with health care and keep trying to close Planned Parenthood...Is it possible that the Legislators in Mississippi don't know where babies come from?
Poverty, such a strange thing to attempt to measure. There are different levels. Take me for example. I am a 35 year old white male, semi-educated, employed, and I make $36k a year. I am on my own, and I have no support structure to help if I stumble. In America, those facts state that I am not living in poverty, right? Well, my monthly income is around $2600 bring home a month. Now, subtract $500 in rent (I share a house with someone because I couldn't possibly afford a place of my own), $800 in medical bills (I spent an hour in an ER and got an $8k medical bill) $550 for student loans, $500 a month for 7 more months on a car I bought with a low credit score. BTW, the low credit score is because I wrecked a car a month after I bought it. It put me in a coma for a month and a half. the creditor took me and my parents to court while I was still in a coma and won a settlement. Fair right? $140 a month on insurance. Single white male that is 35 years old is a high risk driver it seems. So, total that up and you can see why I have sat at home for the last week with the flu. I have migraines, spinal pain, vomiting, passing out, dry couch that will not end, joint pains, and too weak to stand in the shower for the duration. Instead of going to the ER and gathering up another multi thousand dollar bill, I sit here and take days off of work losing pay because I am too weak to stand up. Who lives in poverty now? On another side note...my fridge is bare, and I have been drinking water by the gallon since Friday. Welcome to America
What is "dry couch"?
Cough. Sorry, I am kinda suffering through blurry vision, inability to focus. Which is why I went through several drafts. I probably missed more than just that one.
Hope you get to feeling better really soon.
I hope you feel better, but why not go to a walk in clinic and spend $80 rather than go to the emergency room? Less money, and they would probably see you faster.
I looked on the web, and couldn't find one. I live in Las Vegas.
For the flu and cold: a quarter tsp of cinnamon coupled with a table spoon of honey in some tea would take care of it, hopefully.
Another version is to add equal parts honey, vinegar and lemon juice in some hot water along with the same amount of cinnamon mentioned earlier.
In addition, a simple walk outdoor -- what with the sunlight and it benefits, how walks strengthens one's bones, etc.-- truly is a great remedy all on its own. Just a reminder.
One more thing: if you could get yourself some dates (... the fruit, that is =P ) and something that would provide you with the calcium needed, along with the water you're already having, is perfectly enough for you -- or any other human being-- to live healthfully nutrition-wise.
Very informative comments, btw; thank you.
I feel for you Will-1449962 and I hope things get better for you!!!
Sorry you are so sick with the flu right now, but there are clinics in Las Vegas and you should be able to locate them. I'm wondering why you didn't get catastrophic health insurance before you had to go to the emergency room the first time. It is playing Russian roulette to go without any kind of health insurance these days, hoping you'll never have an accident, appendicitis, or some other condition requiring hospitalization and care. Two of my sons were in your situation a few years ago (making under 35K a year) and they were wise enough not to take chances and "hope" they never get sick. They also located local clinics before they got sick just in case they need them. It seems you made a bad choice and now you're in a really bad way. Sorry, but you need to be more proactive with your life.
Will-1449962
Sell your car, and buy something cheaper.
File ch. 7 and buy health insurance with the money you save. You can't afford your car payment and your medical bills. You will end up defaulting anyway.
Get an income deferment on your student loans and either learn a trade or go back to college.
The flu will go away on it's own, don't go to another doctor.
$2600 Income
<500> Rent
<400> Groceries
<400> Gasoline
<140> Car insurance
= $1,160/month for other utilities, health insurance, tuition, maybe even save a little if you're frugal.
All good idea, although selling the car might not help if he owes more on it than it's worth (still has to pay the loan off...might not have enough left over to buy another one).
I live in Massachusetts, where nearly everyone has health care (like 99.5%) and those who can't afford it are covered by the State. People don't go broke because they have to go to the ER. Obamacare will solve some of this, but universal health care would've solved all of it.
I totally agree "I am appalled". There are the poor that cannot help it and there are the poor that CAN help it. I have no desire to help those who CAN BUT WON'T help themselves. Unfortunately they are grouped together. And why is any able-bodied person poor? They are certainly able to work. They can certainly able to get an education. Why are they poor???
Obama voters? The government pays them not to work.
Where are they going to work? You have Phd candidates flipping burgers at McDonalds for $9.50 hour.
Sadly people have this attitude that most poor people don't want to work. That is simply not true. Schools are CLOGGED with kids getting degrees that will graduate to find there are no jobs out there.
Jobs being created in Wisconsin are service jobs that are low paying. That is what Wisconsin has become. A magnet for corporations that pay for crap. People cannot live on crap.
IAM -
Maybe they should have gotten that PhD in something that was marketable, like engineering or pharmacy instead of history or art.
Tammy,
Not so fast. I have a PhD in Business (specializing in MIS) and while I don't "flip" burgers, I can tell you the job market does not discriminate. It is tough for everybody. Getting a job nowadays is 90% luck.
recycle congress
that is exactly the problem - i was able-bodied and worked and was still poor. i didn't have kids till i was 32. i could barely support myself on $15-25000 i lived on for years. i live in the MD suburbs of washington, dc. different places have different income requirements. i could always get a job, but i couldn't live on what i made. i have no criminal record. i'm not stupid. after 25 years of subsistence living i was able to break the cycle and finish college. now i'm making 4 times that amount.
2 things I would like to address....first to Iam......Obama is not doing ANYTHING to help job creation in this country. You may not agree with me, but it is a fact. And I live in a totally different part of the country than you, and so yes, I do see a lot that do not, and will not work...and that is just a fact.
Second to mohrbike.....congratulations to you....that is the American spirit. You are to be commended on your motivation to better yourself.
You might need to look up the definition of "fact." I do not think it means what you think it means.
Hello. Look at any sizeable city. Poverty is everywhere. How could it not be, looking at the new corruption games that are being played out... (see examples below)
1. William Johnson Plays CEO For A day, Earns $44 Million In 'Corporate Hijacking'
2.Heinz CEO William Johnson Would Get $56 Million 'Golden Parachute' If He's Fired
The true unemployment rate is closer to 20%. The stress levels are escalating as well as the violence. Doesn't anyone want to stop the INSANITY? How long can a society sustain this?
Good luck.
No one. no one in this country should be in poverty, at all. Like recyclecongress I too do not feal for thows who can, except the children. For thows who can not and do not want to be in poverty. They should be helped till they are not.
For thows that make a living on welfare. Kick em off and force them to rise up. If they do not. Too bad for them. They had their chance.
There is no reason for any one to be in poverty in this country. No one.
lawerence baird,
Unless your ideas are applied they are just "moral philosophy".
You ideas can't be applied until you describe criteria for what "poverty" is. If the criteria are wholly statistical they won't work. For example, if the criteria are that a person or family is in poverty if their household income is in the bottom 10% which corresponds to $xxxx per year, then 10% are automatically in poverty. That kind of definition isn't very useful. So the criteria needs to be in terms of adequate food, housing, health care, and so forth.
Then you find a case of a person who spends money provided to them to help them because they are in poverty on drugs or alcohol.
It gets sticky.
We have millions in poverty? Why are we giving billions to foreign countries?
Because you will never know when you need the foreign lands to build army bases for future wars.
Grease the palm...
I'd like to think it was altruistic, but it isn't.
Poor in America is due to a myriad of issues....poor (no income), poor education (and an educational system that gives feel good grades due to parental pressure and poor administrators), poor health and no health insurance (my son is un-insurable in this country due to an auto immune disease he was born with), mental illness (and a "we don't fund that sh*t mentality)....the list is long, and includes the fact that anyone with a drug charge (felony...don't get me started on how that's selectively imposed) cannot get a student loan or live in student housing.....We, as a culture don't really get how hard it is to get a foot up and do what it takes without support. Just talked with a student today who can't go home to crazy mom on assistance and wants to go to college. She, with no support didn't know what $130 per credit hour meant....(3 credits = 3 times $130 for example) didn't know she had to pay back student loans....didn't realize the community college doesn't have a dorm.....doesn't have a car, or a license....and now that she's 18? We just shove her out of foster care without a wing or a prayer and think it's her fault she's (likely) going to be poor? NOT a christian nation....just sayin (as a atheist who works with children). We, as a nation just don't get it.. AND the comment about able bodied? If you have a mental health disease OR a physical one and get disability insurance, YOU CANNOT WORK, even if you are able or want to, you lose disability, forever if you work, not to mention the fact that IF your illness comes back, you have no income OR disability - really, why would you work if those are the rules?. We need a way to let folks work when they can without the fear of homelessness if they fall out of "remission"....crazy and insensitive to realities of many folks. Sick really that many folks don't get it.
oldteacher,Kids in foster care that reach 18 and are kicked to the curb end up on a downward spiral to lifelong poverty.I think it is reprehensible of any adult that would raise a foster child and throw them to the curb with no life coping skills,job or a place to live. This is one problem that our country is certainly capable of fixing.
oldteacher,
Thanks for your post. It is heart breaking.
You have a heart of gold.
Cold, you're right, and to top it off, this in a nation hell-bent on banning abortion and cutting off assistance to all single mothers, the mothers lambasted for sticking it out and NOT abandoning the kids. Foster care is rampant with children praying to be adopted, all while the ranters and ravers simply want to be mad at women who dare to have sex. None take care of the kids, none take care of the MEN who dare to have sex.
what EASE everyone says "get a job" with, when there ARE no jobs. The losses come in DAILY. And the STUPIDITY lies with those equating poverty with stupidity. Poverty was VERY defined in this article, it's an inability to pay for the 3 basics: food, shelter and clothinng, a "percentage based" income would be LOVELY if we were all making 100's of thousands and food was still at today's prices, but that's NOT the case to the moron who figured that a % of the richest of the rich means the U.S. has no poverty. Did ANYONE read the article? or is everyone just busy saying everyone who is poor is waiting for a handout and is lazy, stupid and on drugs, oh, and a stupid woman who couldn't say "no." Is anyone actually interested in SOLVING the problem? yeah there are some solutions, and cutting CORPORATE welfare would seem to be one of the huge LOGICAL ones. Considering corporate welfare takes a FAR bigger chunk out of the budget than does the assistance to those in poverty.
Those kids in foster care live through hell. Parents who couldn't be trusted to care for them, and then foster families struggling to care for them, with zero to give a crap when it's time to push them out of the nest.
It's true about disability. No they can't work without loss of the disability AND without loss of medical coverage (the bigger worry.) And for those who do go and fill out the paperwork for assistance, they have to take classes, they have to prove attempts to get a job by having people sign papers where they apply. if this is NOT done, they lose assistance. AND the truest thing here is? MOST of the people in poverty in the U.S. AREN'T GETTING assistance. You want to give hands to those who try? Then GET OUT THERE AND START VOLUNTEERING! Plenty of THOSE kinds of jobs available for everyone sitting here ready to yell at the poor for their inability to purchase food. How do I know? Because I volunteer. A lot, and there are a pitiful few who do.
Well it does seem that the redistribution of wealth always goes to and always has gone to the top....
Redistribution is in full effect. The catch is it is taking from all Americans and sending it to the rest of the world. We send more tax dollars out of the country than we spend on the entire education system.
Blut: Do you ever sleep? :-)
I'd like to think the US is being ultruistic, but I'm afraid they are just greasing the palms of countries to enable us to plant troops there in the next wars or they have something that is of interest to us (oil, natural gas, diamonds, etc)... It isn't unheard of..
There is NO redistribution of wealth and there will be none. This is an Obama pipe dream he is trying to feed the Obama masses. Those who have the money will always find a way to make more money, they might find a way to let you make some or make some more, that is all. Obama has his you don't see him sharing, the wealth do you.
Just the "financially challenged" , the rich need them to take all of the cuts.
The "Safety Net" truly has become a hammock.
Poverty = Hunger
We live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. No one should be hungry here. Stop the foreign aid, and help our own people!
Native Americans ARE NOT poor. I spent years working in the Indian Health Service and drinking the cool-aid of this nonsense. It finally dawned on me; Native Americans get 100% free health care, and for them health care includes everything-medication, dental, eyewear, you name it. They get free housing. They get a monthly "Indian General Assistance" check, in addition to any other government financial support that they qualify for if they are "below the poverty line". If they live on the Res, they pay no taxes. Most of them drive new vehicles because they qualify for loans because of their monthly checks. They get food stamps if they qualify, and they have 'food banks'. If they managed to get into college they get 100% of their tuition paid, plus money for housing, and living expenses. When I started in the Indian Health Service in the eighties I would say that some of the people were poor, but dignified, nowadays most Native American kids want the latest and coolest clothes and shoes. What does it mean to be poor? This is a very good question. If a person has food, shelter, better health care than most people on the planet, and some spending money-is this poor? Really, WHAT more does a person need, every wish fulfilled, and a full time slave to follow them around and tend to their every need?
This is a real story that happened to me in the eighties. I was at my first job in the Indian Health Service. When I was young I WAS poor, and dropped out of high school to help support my family (in the days before 'aid to families with dependent children'.) When I finally went back to college to become a nurse I had A LOT of catching up to do, plus I worked my way through college, some semesters I worked until I had enough money to pay tuition for the next semester, and I always worked part time at minimum wage jobs. I had no loans or financial aid. It took me eight or nine years to get my BSN.
I was working with a Native LPN. She started telling me that her sister wanted to become a doctor. "Oh, that's wonderful" I said enthusiastically. I was SO totally naive in those days, I had NO CLUE that I was being set up for a put-down, Native American style. "Well, it would be, but she can't afford to finish her last year of college", (this was before I knew that that Native Americans don't even have to pay for their college education). "Oh no", I said, there must be SOME way she can get loans or something if she got this far". My Native American co-worker turned and looked at me hatefully, "Oh, she has her college paid for and someone offered to pay for her apartment in Reno, but", her voice turned venomous, "she bought a new car, and NO ONE has offered to make her car payments for her, so she has to quit". My jaw dropped, I simply did not know what to say. NOW I know that this attitude is fairly common on the Res, if you are "white" and have more education than they do, they just ASSume that you have had everything given to you on a silver platter.
Yeah, define "poor".
Wow, what Reservation did you work on? Would be an interesting story.
QueZen,
Thanks for your post. It is very informative.
See post #13 above by "oldteacher".
I wish you tow posts were back-to-back.
Together they tell quite a story.
We have become a people who believe the govt owes us, this isnt the people which created the country it is today. We have become parasites feeding on the work of our parents and their parents. Someday the bill will become due and it wont be pretty with so many thinking they are owed.
I do believe the government owes me. I work hard for my money and they take almost 40% of it and use it on private jets, lavish parties basically a bunch of pork that does nothing to further the well being of the country, like oohhh maybe education. So yeah the government does owe me!
The gov't DOES owe those who worked for their Social Security and their pensions (many lost pensions due to new laws and theft by BILLIONAIRE corporations like Romney's) It OWES us a FULL explanation of where the hell the trillions in taxes are going! It OWES us a RESPONSIBLE bailout, it still amazes me that it would have been CHEAPER to pay each American family a million dollars rather than to bailout Wallstreet, AND the economy would have been buzzing along as demand rose and jobs escalated due to demand. Houses would have been paid off, so would school loans, would have been amazing BUT NO, Congress handed it over to already millionaires who gave themselves HUGE bonuses for tanking the economy. Gee, woulda been smart. Let me have the THIEF hold the money, always makes better sense to Congress. You BET they owe the U.S. a host of explanations as to how they justify their salaries when there are people having to live on less than 5% of what they earn to REPRESENT them and NOT the corporate lobbies!
What else does the government owe me? A Supreme Court NOT paid for by corporations and who will LEGALLY and MORALLY uphold the Constitution without looking at laws presented as "loopholes" to get AROUND our Constitution, who the he double toothpicks believes it is CONSTITUTIONAL to force people to purchase private insurance? OR that a PRIVATE security company has the right to search every person because they're private, therefore not subject to the laws of the Constituion of the United States (TSA) ? which amounts to, ANY city being allowed to hire private security to go through anyone's home and private articles and being exempt from the laws of the Constitution.
yes the gov't OWES it's people! THE MONEY needs to go BACK to the people, and NOT to corporations. You bet we're owed. And as for the whole JOKE of everyone pushing "lazy and stupid" for GOD"S SAKE people GET YOUR FACTS! the vast majority of those who get assistance are NOT lazy and stupid and ASSISTANCE doesn't even cover BASIC NEEDS. MOST in poverty aren't even GETTING assistance!
Folks who talk about social security and medicare being owed to them are in for a rude awaking as these same people who put in only tens of thousands into the system expect 100's of thousands out of the system for their lifetime.
Every American will see poverty at the grocery store if they encounter a senior citizen.I have seen many seniors,mostly women,and I can tell by the way that they are shopping that they don't have enough money to buy food to get to the end of the month.Many seniors hide this from their adult children.Many seniors have no children or they live out of state.Every city does not have a senior center where lunch is cheap. Every time there are budget cuts,senior programs are one of the first ones cut.It is shameful to treat those who contributed to society all of their lives to be treated this way.The mentally ill are living in poverty.Some live on the streets and those who are fortunate enough to be housed somewhere have no money except for shelter and the roof over their heads in a group home.This is a travesty to me.The most fragile poor people are in plain sight.
just a cleaning lady I so agree. The seniors and mentally ill that really do need the help fall thru the cracks. Are either proud "seniors" or "unable" mentally ill. But those vast majority that are in line... generation after generation that know how to work the system get theirs. Shame on our goverment we need to weed these slackers out show Id drug test them. and stop the hand outs after 1 year.
just a cleaning lady I so agree. The seniors and mentally ill that really do need the help fall thru the cracks. Are either proud "seniors" or "unable" mentally ill. But those vast majority that are in line... generation after generation that know how to work the system get theirs. Shame on our goverment we need to weed these slackers out show Id drug test them. and stop the hand outs after 1 year.
Unfortunately in this country, the seniors and the unborn have no use to society.
tawbear,thanks and I agree with you on the slackers.The money given to the slackers could be used for the disabled,the mentally ill and the seniors.
The more a government devalues its money, the more pervasive poverty becomes. As with other societal ills, the fed.gov is the root of them. ©2013
Yes. In 1960, the average per capita income in my home county was $7612 per year. That's $47,758 in today's dollarettes. But today, the average per capita income in my county is $23,023. We've been robbed of half our wealth. Not in any material way, we still have the same farms, the same mines, the same factories. Our people still have the same skills. The government did it by borrowing and spending money it didn't have, making the currency worth less in the process.
Only government can generate the inflation that robs us of our savings. As individuals and families we can't just keep spending money we don't have in order to keep pace. We have to cut back and stay within our means. We get poorer year by year, all due to a government that won't live within its means. It gets away with it by claiming a monopoly on the use of force. It controls the police. It controls the military. We only have our personal arms, and leftist Progressive <spit> government is doing its utmost to deprive us of them.
The government you speak of is in reality the RICH.
Oh my! The poverty rate is increasing despite overall net job gains.
Yeah, job gains at $9 an hour.
We're one generation away from a huge mess.
Yeah I feel you man. Dig it.
We're IN the mess. not one generation away.
Good thing that the vast majority of growth in wealth in this country over the last 20 years has gone to the wealthy!
Good thing our companies have sent so many jobs offshore to increase profits and put Americans out of good paying jobs!
Good thing minimum wage has been kept flat for decades by... yeah, you guessed it.
Spend half an hour on the internet looking this stuff up. It's horrifying.
Pete,
When you say "vast majority of growth in wealth" do you mean wealth or do you mean income?
Our government is ruled by the corporations, and they've created an economy based on consumerism, yet none of the products are made here.
The only things made in America these days are weapons to support the foreign policy ripe for imperialism, high price/poor quality healthcare, and tomorrows trash.
We've made the importing of iPhones and other products essentially an inter company transfer, while something useful like Brazilian sugarcane ethanol is tariffed over .55 cents a gallon.
It's a disgrace, and people complain about social programs, yet our "elected" officials are the real culprits behind our destroyed economy with their $1 trillion annual military budget and corporate bosses pulling their strings.
We even import our damn weed.
AMEN, superskunk!! Truer words have not been spoken.
Politicians are only partially responsible. They do what they do because we elect and re-elect them.
"Programs" are usually about placating or pandering rather than solving real problems.
It's frightening to think that a significant portion of the population actually trust the govt with their health and medical information. Half the time we can barely get them to account for far less important things.
We the People- have been on lunch break these last 40+ years and are in for a rude awakening! As long as we could buy new SUVs, granite countertops, and smartphones nobody paid attention.
Ah but now...