David Friedman / NBC News
Meet Crystal Dupont and John White. Both are struggling to live on minimum wage, one at the start of her career and the other toward the end of his.
By Allison Linn, Staff Writer, NBC News
Crystal Dupont knows what it’s like to try to live on the federal minimum wage.
Dupont has no health insurance, so she hasn’t seen a doctor in two years. She’s behind on her car payments and has taken out pawn shop and payday loans to cover other monthly expenses. She eats beans and oatmeal when her food budget gets low.
When she got her tax refund recently, she used the money to get ahead on her light bill.
“I try to live within my means, but sometimes you just can’t,” said Dupont, 25. The Houston resident works 30 to 40 hours a week taking customer service calls, earning between $7.25 and $8 an hour. That came to about $15,000 last year.
It’s a wage she’s lived on for a while now, but just barely.
About 3.6 million Americans were earning at or below the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour in 2012, and those weren’t all high school students flipping burgers.
About half of them were 25 or older, a little more than one-third were working full time and a little less than three-fourths had graduated from high school, according to the most recent government data.
A person working full time for minimum wage would take home an annual salary of $15,080. That’s a shade higher than the poverty threshold for a household containing two adults, and about $8,000 less than the poverty line for a family of four.
These are the workers who answer your customer service calls, deliver your pizzas, take care of your children, bag your groceries and serve your food.
President Barack Obama has called on Congress to give them a raise by increasing the minimum wage to $9 an hour by 2015.
Liberal-leaning economists say the move would help millions of workers without better prospects pay their bills. It would also pump more money into the economy through higher consumer spending, they argue.
“Unfortunately, for far too many people, the ladder that they’re on doesn’t have a whole lot of rungs,” said Doug Hall, director of the Economic Analysis and Research Network at the progressive Economic Policy Institute.
But conservative thinkers argue the move would hurt both the economy and low-wage workers. They say employers would have to cut benefits or jobs so they could afford to pay the higher wages to remaining employees. Some say the minimum wage already keeps people out of a job.
“There (are) the people who are already working and are getting the minimum wage, and there’s the other group of people who are not working because of the minimum wage,” said Mark Perry, a scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute.
Caught in the middle of this debate are the workers themselves, millions of whom are preoccupied with the daily worries of getting by.
Workers like John White, 61.
“It’s by the grace of God that I am having ends meet,” said White, who was out of work for 20 months before he got his current, part-time job delivering pizzas.
March 6: John White, who only gets about eight hours of work per week delivering pizzas, would rather see a focus on job creation than raising the minimum wage.
He earns a base salary of $7.25 an hour when he is prepping or doing other chores, but that drops to $4.50 an hour when he goes out on a delivery because he is supposed to also earn tips.
The Department of Labor allows tipped employees to be paid a base salary that is below minimum wage, but the employer must be able to show the employee receives minimum wage when tips are included.
In the past few years, White has relied on help from his church when he couldn’t pay his electric or phone bill, or needed car repairs. His fellow parishioners also helped him pick up odd jobs.
He gets $135 a month in food stamps, now known as SNAP, but lost his state-subsidized health insurance after he got his pizza delivery job. A lifelong bachelor, he lives in a family home in Robesonia, Pa., that he and his sibling inherited.
White’s wages have fallen steadily over the past decade. He worked in a warehouse of a regional department store for nearly 14 years and was earning $12.50 an hour before he was let go in 2003 after a dispute with a co-worker.
He was unemployed for about half a year until he got a job as a security guard in 2004. He earned $10.60 an hour in that job, and held it for six years until he was let go in June of 2010.
He’s been in the part-time pizza delivery job for nearly a year, but his financial situation remains precarious.
He’s hoping to pick up more hours. But unlike steadier jobs he’s had in the past, he’s learned that with this kind of job, there’s no guarantee of stable hours.
“You don’t even get eight hours in one day, (and) you might be lucky to get eight hours in one week,” he said.
Hoping for a better future
Dupont didn’t expect her working life to start out this way. She graduated from high school in 2006, a year after her father passed away, got a job and moved out of the family home.
But Dupont soon found that she couldn’t earn enough money to live on her own. She also needed to be home to help her mother, who is disabled and can’t drive because she has seizures.
Without her father’s income, Dupont and her mother couldn’t keep up on house payments, and the home they’d lived in since 1998 went into foreclosure in 2009. They moved into an apartment and now live on Dupont’s salary and her mother’s disability benefits and food stamps.
In January, Dupont started taking classes at Houston Community College, where she is in the business technology and computer science programs.
She took out a $3,500 student loan but is hoping that she can use scholarships and grants, or perhaps find a second job, to avoid taking on more debt.
On her days off, she’ll sometimes spend six hours studying, working ahead two or three weeks in her classes because she enjoys it so much.
“It tells me that there’s more than what I’m doing now out there – there’s more to life than this,” she said.
Related:
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Crystal Dupont talks about living on minimum wage. The 25-year-old answers customer service calls from the bedroom of her Houston apartment and hopes earning a computer science degree will pay off in lucrative technology job.
Leave a Comment:
We should make it $9/h now. :P
Why not $30.00 hour silly?
That would be so cool!! McDonalds will finally be able to offer 25 dollar meals!! How awesome is that!
We should take all minimum wage earners out and shoot them. The babyboomers, too. Anyone on unemployment for more than a couple weeks, the elderly, and newborns of unwed mothers should be fried. The indigent, mentally challenged, physically handicapped, as well, should meet their maker. This country doesn't need anymore drain on its resources. The economists and our politicians tell us so. We must follow their lead. BTW, to live in the US, one should have the right religion, skin color, and bank account to go along with it. Did I miss anyone?
If we get rid of all the American societal leeches, we can give out more foreign aid, like the $250 million to Egypt, and $25 million to Syria. We wouldn't want anyone to think that the US is cheap or uncaring.
This strategy has been done once before some 70 years ago.
BTW, Israel is the number one recipient of foreign aid. We can't cut that.
zapper no what we really need is take people like you and ship them to their own island and you can fight the other crazies for your survival.
I believe zapper was being sarcastic... although sometimes with posts it's hard to tell.
"Would you like a milk shake and fries with that?" Now give me a $50K salary with a pension!
One sign of intelligence and awareness is being able to detect obvious sarcasm when you read it. Ted.
All you people railing to not raise the minimum wage because you claim it will raise prices are full of it! We have raised it quite a few times, There was negligible effect to cost and you all know it! Bottom line, If you work in the richest country in the world, You should at least be able to afford to live OK not good but at least OK!!!!
No they are against it because they make $15 an hour and feel more superior of those making $7.25 then they would if they were making $9. Clearly increasing the pay this small amount would have little impact for most of us but a huge help for the poorest. Argue as they might they can't make a valid argument against it. i guess it's easier to try and hold the poorest down then to simply try to do better themselves.
Exactly. The wages being paid to minimum-wage employees are a small fraction of a business' total costs, so a 25% increase in the minimum wage may only translate to a few percent increase in total costs. And, mimimum wage employees will spend virtually all of that increase, helping to lead to increased economic activity.
You hit the nail squarely on the head Larry!
Dmajesty, tell that to the people living in the Middle East oil countries.
Minimum wage really should be more like $16-22 an hour for most jobs. There is very little labor that requires NO SKILLS...and many skilled people, who for whatever reason are earning so much less than they used to. It has not caught up with inflation, nor the cost of living...if it had, it would be around $23.
The money has shifted to the top...it has nothing to do with Obama...
,http://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10-americans-are-completely-wrong-about-this-mind-blowing-fact-2?g=3
Larry,
Actually Larry there are valid reasons, and I'm sure that you have heard most or all of them. But, you dismiss them as invalid simply because they don"t align with your own beliefs.
Eileen V,
The real problem is a Government and Federal Reserve bank that insists on engineering and creating constant and continual inflation. How about we attack the Government for causing constantly increasing prices.
Good idea,DOMEWARS....I suggest your start your own business,pay your employees as much as you want,maybe $30 hour.-Heck,why not give them top notch insurance, 5 weeks paid vacations,maybe even a company vehicle,with a company gas card.. Also,you should pay for daycare,if they have childrens..Just make sure you don't have any mandatory drug testing,as that would be offensive.. Let me be the first to apply,I'll be waiting for your call!
Corporate profits SOAR... Stock market hits new high, corporate taxes low, low, low and all we ever hear is "if we have to spend one dime more on the people who work to provide our product or service it will break us and we will have to lay people off". It's all pure BS. God forbid they pay share holders .18 per share instead of .22 per share. As long as the casino is rockin & rollin no need to worry about another soul on the planet.
NMEeast, Middle east oil companies seriously? What the hell are you talking about?????????
Stop giving away our tax dollars $72-Billion each year in foreign aid, Americans first !!!
Did I really need to note SARCASM? Wow, such intuitive and deep thinkers here on the vine (Yes, that's sarcasm again). Thank you JayEll.
BTW, at one time or another, I've fallen into each one of those categories I listed or been closely related to it. I'm not elderly yet, but I am getting ready to retire. Babyboomer, too. Wooohooo.
As long as we can blame anything and everything for our problems, we will never get around to the business of SOLVING those problems; we are too busy pointing fingers. I'm sick of hearing this, that and the other thing--I want solutions, not excuses. AND THAT'S NOT SARCASM.
Heartland,
The stock market is up because Ben Bernanke wants it to be up. The Federal reserve has pumped approx. $3 trillion into the economy over the last 5 years, and gauranteed trillions more.
With bank savings accounts paying .05% interest and US Treasuries not even paying enough to keep pace with inflation, where did you think that money was going to go?
Bernanke himself called QE a success because the market was up, creating a 'wealth effect' where people see the valu of their portfolios increase and feel more confident spending money based on 'paper profits'.
In the vast majority of cases, if you make the right personal decisions you can live OK in this country. Sure, there are always going to be some exceptions in a country with over 200 million people, but those are exceptions - not the rule.
There is a reason over 90% of the millionaires in the US are first-generation. It's because they worked harder and smarter than the rest of us...
Ron, What does any of that have to do with raising a minimum wage, that has remained the same for years while the cost of living continues to soar?????
The headline really should be "by the grace of god" (and despite the Administration, Congress and ALL governments), how employers can still afford to pay $7.25 per hour........
Dmajesty,
The minimum wage is a starting point that allows people without skills to earn something while they acquire the skills to earn more. If we raise the minimum wage it may reduce the number of unskilled workers companies are willing to hire and therefore have the unintended consequence of actually hurting unskilled workers (since it will not be as easy to get those starting jobs).
I'll use myself as an example, I actually worked for less than minimum wage while putting myself through college because it was the best job I could find with the flexibility I needed to attend classes. Also, before going to college I did 4 years in the service to get GI benefits and save money so I wouldn't have to go into debt to get a degree. The GI benefits alone would not have been enough to pay for my college...I needed the money from my sub-minimum wage job to make things work.
Once I got the degree and that first real job (which took another year since I graduated in the middle of a recession), I was on my way to the financial security I have today.
The reason I'm cautious about pushing the minimum wage too high is I want everyone else to have the same opportunities I did. (and I hope everyone else is at least as successful as I've been)
The effect of raising the minimum wage to $9 for a full time worker comes out to an extra $280 a month after 7.65% SS & Medicare taxes for the worker. This hardly seems like a solution to poverty.
For a small business with 10 minimum wage workers on the other hand, the burden is significant. The business owner's cash obligation is the full amount of the wage increase ($1.75/hour per worker) plus his portion of the SS and Medicare tax. The amount a business owner pays for workers compensation insurance, unemployment insurance (tax) and liability insurance is often tied to total payroll expense as well. The marginal annual obligation for the small business owner with 10 employees for an increase to $9/hour is about $45,000.
These are not evil corporations, these are mom and pop small business owners. The minimum wage actually helps corporations because it limits competition by small business owners. Is this what you people want?
@2.11 Barry said "The wages being paid to minimum-wage employees are a small fraction of a business' total costs, so a 25% increase in the minimum wage may only translate to a few percent increase in total costs."
You couldn't be more wrong Barry. For many businesses -- especially the types that employ minimum wage workers -- labor is the largest cost. Full service restaurants are a great example, where labor is typically 30-35% of total operating cost and the food & beverage costs range from 25-38% of total operating cost, depending on the type of restaurant. Occupancy costs (rent) are only 5-6% of the total.
What do you think the profit margins are in the restaurant business? It varies with the average size of the check per person. Recent data from the National Restaurant Association shows that those with checks under $15 showed a profit of 3 percent. Those with checks from $15 to $24.99 boasted the highest profit margin at 3.5 percent. Finally, those with checks of $25 and over had the lowest profit margins, at 1.8 percent.
So yeah, go ahead and take labor, which is about a third of the cost of operating a restaurant, and raise it by 25% like you suggested. Then all a restaurant owner has to do is raise the prices of everything on the menu by about 12% to maintain those slim profit margins -- assuming he doesn't lose sales volume, which he will, because not all of his customers will happily just pay 12% more for the same food & beverages they got last month for so much less.
60% of restaurants fail within the first 3 years. Let's try your idea of raising the minimum wage by 25% and maybe we can boost that failure rate to 80%. But hey, at least the employees will be making so much more right up until that day when the boss says he's sorry but he's closing the doors and Friday is everyone's last day!
Restaurants dont fail because of overpaid employes. They fail because of crappy food and lousy cost controls on raw materials. In short, they toss away their profits into the dumpster every night. Management is why restaurants fail so often.
There are a few problems behind the disappearing middle class and increase in the working poor:
1) Insufficient training for a modern economy. That means poor K-12 education. That means poor access/incentives for continuing education and retraining. We will never again be able to compete on the world stage for cheap labor jobs--most jobs will require some higher level of training. But we don't focus enough on reaching down and help lift up the education level of those at the bottom half of the economic ladder. That means investing in poor, struggling school systems. That means paying teachers more. That means helping parents invest more time in their children's education.
2) Not enough investment in developing transformative technology. There is a lot of investment in making things bigger and more efficient, because that leads to short term financial gains. Streamlining an operation yields immediate gains. But we don't have a drive from investors to put money into companies looking 10 or so years down the road to make something that is a game changer. One way to do that is by changing tax code to encourage more long-term investments and discourage short-term ones. When the U.S. makes the transformative technology, that means more jobs in manufacturing and production.
3) The health care system doesn't make us healthy. It makes us less sick. We must rethink the way we spend on healthcare. More preventative medicine. Chronic illness is a money and productivity sink. Helping low-income folks manage chronic diseases is a long-term money saver. They are more productive, more likely to work, more likely to contribute back into society. And the main way to do this is to change how doctors and hospitals get paid. They must be paid on outcomes, not what treatments, tests they order.
And all of these things will require an investment. I suggest funding that by significant military cuts--15 to 30%--and increased taxes on the wealthy and corporations. For all of you who think this is socialism, get over yourselves. When you have the rich getting richer and the middle class disapearing, you have an unstable situation. There are two paths we can follow: further income inequality eventually leading to revolt and societal collapse, or institute policy to narrow that gap and stabilize society. Let's pick the latter and leave silly ideology at the door. Good policy isn't based on ideology, it's based on pragmatism and reality. We need politicians who are less wedded to some political idea than are driven by results.
Ron, Show me where it is written that this is the purpose of the minimum wage? Every time i check it is stated to be the base pay of people who work in this country , It was set where it was to keep working people out of poverty nothing more! That is not the case now! It needs to be changed period!!!
RE: Restaurants. Most cooks already make more than minimum wage, and if you're paying your cooks minimum wage, you're getting what you pay for. Managers and many bartenders make more than minimum as well, so their wages would probably stay the same. So, who's going to be affected by the minimum wage increase in restaurants? Hosts (except in high class establishments, they already make more), bussers, and dishwashers. This is 5 or fewer people on average. You can't really count servers, because their minimum wage is still only $2.13/hr so a 25% increase is only 53 cents. Most servers only work 3-4 hours per day during the rush hours, so you're only paying each server an additional $1-2 per shift.
Most of which is moot anyway. Many states already have tipped minimum wages that are higher than a 25% federal increase of $2.66 anyway so an increase would literally have no effect on them.
So tell me again how this will put restaurants out of business...
@2.30
Best comment I have read yet today!!!!
How can we even have a discussion on wages and unemployment without bringing up the two biggest players?
A piss poor educational system and the off-shoring of production!
jbirdofthe South
You must be new to the Vine. Don't ever assume anything you read here was intended as sarcasm regardless of how crazy it sounds.
double post delete
Wow, people sure can't read sarcasm. I got collapsed! But in a way, I'm glad. It shows that folks are offended by the very things that so many are saying on these boards/vines. The offenders offer no suggestions, they call names on those who can't help what's happened, they denigrate everyone who is not as good as they are, and then they have the audacity to be upset because everyone isn't good enough. People hate that. Good, but the next time, I'll add the sarcasm tag so that it won't confuse those who have no insight into the BS they are being spoon fed.
Here it is again for those who don't read collapsed comments: Remember it's sarcasm!
We should take all minimum wage earners out and shoot them. The babyboomers, too. Anyone on unemployment for more than a couple weeks, the elderly, and newborns of unwed mothers should be fried. The indigent, mentally challenged, physically handicapped, as well, should meet their maker. This country doesn't need anymore drain on its resources. The economists and our politicians tell us so. We must follow their lead. BTW, to live in the US, one should have the right religion, skin color, and bank account to go along with it. Did I miss anyone?
If we get rid of all the American societal leeches, we can give out more foreign aid, like the $250 million to Egypt, and $25 million to Syria. We wouldn't want anyone to think that the US is cheap or uncaring.
(I can't see how anyone could miss the sarcasm, especially where the 'economists and politicians' were mentioned, followed up by foreign aid figures, but so it goes.)
PaleBlueDot
5 employees times the 2.75 increase times 14 hours per day times 356 days per year equals- 68,530 per year (you can do math right??). There are 3 mom and pop type restaurants in my small town and I can guarantee the owners don't bring home much more than this every year (one I doubt even comes close). Even large establishments aren't just going to just absorb an extra 70k in annual expenses. So whether or not they go out of business will depend upon whether or not their customers will pay higher prices. OR, of course they could just let a couple people go or cut everyones hours back to part time so they don't have to pay the extra.
So tell me again how this is good for employees...
zapper45701
There are some crazy assed mother @!$%#ers running around on the Vine posting all sorts of crazy @!$%#. I've stopped assuming anything I read here is sarcasm. If you're making a sarcastic post remove all doubt and end with a "/sarcasm"
Raise wages, prices go up. One rise nix's the other by raising in kind.
As with pretty much everything else in life, I really don't care what the official definition is. I want what is best for everyone - regardless of whether or not that meets the official definition.
If I thought increasing the minimum wage to $50/hour would help everyone in the long-term, then I'd be all for it. But, I think increasing the minimum wage beyond a certain point winds up doing more long-term harm than good because it can result in less opportunities for unskilled workers.
@zapper,
I think the problem is, there are a lot of people out there that really do want to get rid of "undesirables" like the old and handicapped. I bet many on here never read the last part of your post, and simply reacted to your first statement, which echos real beliefs held by some really twisted people.
I lost half my right arm and suffered spinal injuries long ago due to a drunk driver, and I've had to deal with my share of really heartless people. At one job I held, I had to deal with a manager who hatefully said to me, "Shouldn't you be at home collecting a free paycheck like the rest of your kind?"
I've worked every day of my adult life, yet I have to deal with people every day that either assume I can't do the work, or I don't work. Heck for that matter, most people I've ever met are shocked to find out I drive and ride bikes.
They just assume anyone with a disability, or with a darker skin color than them, are all lazy bums who want everything handed to them.
Dmajesty
Minimum wage has increased about 90% since 1990, and over the same period the rate of inflation was about 85%.
DingleB, Show proof of this please, Because a simple look around from this end of the spectrum doesn't support this claim....
That is because the methods of figuring the rate of inflation is devised by moneygrubbers who never worked a day in their lives!
The prices of food, fuel, and housing are the REAL inflation index! And yes they have risen significantly higher and faster than working class wages.
McDonald's is the perfect example of a company that could afford to pay a higher wage to it's employees!! They make BILLIONS of dollars in profits every year. Their CEO'S and Corporate big wigs take home millions in annual bonuses. Why can't they take a little less and pay their employees a little more? Why can't they take a little less and give them health care? Their standard of living won't decrease one bit. Their employees however, might actually be able to eat there! The people who are against raising the minimum wage, have no idea what it is like to try and live on it.
zapper45701,
why dont we fry you talking about Unborn children and infants how the heck can they work if all they do is sleep eat poop and cry. pathetic.
Dmajesty
Minimum wage 1990: $3.80
Current minimum wage: $7.25
http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/chart.htm
Cumulative Inflation since 1990: between 76% and 85% depending on how you calculate it
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1&year1=1990&year2=2013
http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx
THERESA-532036
McDonald restaurants are generally locally owned franchises. The fry cook at a McDonald's is paid by the owner of the franchise, not by the McDonald's corporation.
We are just going to end up in another civil war, only the rich vs. the poor. No on should have to work full time for a year for a measly $15,000. Most CEO's make more in an hour, than the average employee's months salary. This is not the way our forefathers intended this country to end up. Personnally, I make $9.50 an hour and it isn't enough, I go to school full time and work full time. We are all tired of inflation, and cost of living rising. This country is due for something radical, and is in dire straits.
@livinginthewoods
Wrong. You can only compare things that are comparable. My parents first house had little in common with mine. When the quality of something increases so does the cost of those items regardless of inflation. A house today with all of the modern conveniences is going to be more expensive than a house 50 years ago with none of them even if there were no inflation to consider. Same applies to fuel and food.
If your parents house is still standing, it is worth likely more than at least 10-20X what they paid for it decades ago. And that is on top of the fact that what may have been a white suburb in the 50s or 60s in now a ghetto.
Your argument is one of the worst pieces of spin I have ever read in my life
Louis,
Which is why instead of asking the Government to increase minimum wage, we should be telling the Government to stop intentionally engineering and creating inflation.
If I'm making 2$ an hour more than someone, how are they getting by?? Oh yeah, my tax dollars feeding them and paying for their healthcare. Middle class is a myth. There are haves, and have nots. My check gets smaller and smaller, while people aren't willing to work for their 250$ a week. Maybe I should give up and join them, I'm not getting anywhere with my 60+ hours of work each week. This is total bs, and it isn't getting any better. I'm a firm believer in working hard and EARNING a living, but I just get less and less by doing that. This country is a joke, my father and grandfather fought in wars for me to have a better future, it's to bad it was just a big punk ass joke...American Dream, what a laugh....
Not true. There is not a one-for-one correlation between raising wages and raising prices, unless labor is the SOLE cost component. In virtually every situation, prices will rise at a slower rate than wages.
livinginthewoods
Let me try again since it obviously went over your head. My parents first home didn't have central air, dishwasher, energy efficient furnace and appliances, 6 inches of insulation in the walls and 24 in the attic, etc. A home built 50 years ago didn't have the same value even when new as a modern home does today. The difference in the price of a house today is about MUCH more than simply inflation. Homes cost more today because you are getting sooo much more than you did before. This simple fact makes homes a HORRIBLE indicator of inflation.
INCREASING THE MINIMUM WAGE DURING ROUGH ECONOMIC TIMES DOES NOT KILL JOBS
Recent studies show that increasing the minimum wage even during hard times is good policy, providing higher pay but no loss of jobs.
A higher minimum wage not only boosts workers’ incomes—something that is sorely needed to boost demand and get the economy going—but it also reduces turnover and shifts businesses toward a high-road, high-human-capital model.
A significant body of academic research has found that raising the minimum wage does not result in job losses even during hard economic times. There are at least five different academic studies focusing on increases to the minimum wage made during periods of high unemployment—with unemployment rates ranging from 7 percent to 12.3 percent—that find an increase in the minimum wage has no significant effect on employment levels. The results are likely because the boost in demand and reduction in turnover provided by a minimum wage counteracts the higher wage costs.
Similarly, a simple analysis of increases to the minimum wage on the state level, even during periods of state unemployment rates above 8 percent, shows that the minimum wage does not kill jobs. Indeed the states in our simple analysis had job growth slightly above the national average.
http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/labor/news/2012/06/20/11749/the-facts-on-raising-the-minimum-wage-when-unemployment-is-high-2/
Economists think raising the minimum wage is worth it
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/02/27/economists-think-the-minimum-wage-is-worth-it/
Rose1989: Again, reading comprehension is still in the toilet. Read it all, not just your picks and choices.
So if she has been making minimum wage and was able to buy a car. What has changed that she can no longer afford it. I wonder what kind of car she owns.
So how much does she make? Why does it fluctuate?
Why hasn't she received any raises in this time? Has she not improved her performance?
So, these are high school kids who perform jobs that involve no skill what so ever.
Thank you. I got it.
@Jason
@Louis - you may not have noticed but, the USA is fighting a war NOW. So, instead of bragging about how your father & grandfather fought for this country YOU wander down to your local Army recruiter - I'm sure they'd be happy to see someone as intelligent & patriotic as you.
Or, are you one of those folks who prefer to sit back & let someone else fight to protect your freedom?
Or, get a good education and don't have kids - your problem is solved. Kids are a luxury that few can really afford.
I believe it would be a good idea to pay all of our representatives in DC the minimum wage and see just how long they last. After all, they are our EMPLOYEES. What they NEED to do is not only raise the minimum wage, but also get it in gear and pass the Fair Tax. If all of us had ALL of our paychecks with NOTHING taken out, we would ALL have more to spend which would definitely boost the economy. The American companies that have moved overseas because of the tax laws here would come streaming back bringing loads of jobs with them. No more special interest groups or lobbyists!!! No more IRS!!! No more filing tax returns every year!! No taxes on anything you try to save or invest!! You only pay taxes at the cash register when you buy NEW goods or services. Maybe people would be able to live on a "minimum wage" then. Check it out at www.FairTax.org. and contact your representatives.
If all of us had all of our paychecks with no taxes taken out, WHERE do you think the money is going to come from for Social Security, Medicaid/Medicare, welfare, food stamps, etc? Where do you think the money will come from to fix the roads, run the schools, provide for the military to protect the U.S.? Where will the money come from to provide emergency aid? You take away taxes and there will be no government, no money system. If we want government, even limited government to what the Constitution states the government should be doing, then WE have to pay taxes for it.
Wake up dude, "FairTax" is anything but fair. They say they aren't partisan, but then why is it that only Republicans are pushing it? This plan is nice if you make over $200k, but it takes more money from those at the bottom.
The 23% sales tax is actually 30% because of a little trick with numbers, but even then the real number to get it done revenue neutral is more like 34%. It is ripe for cheating particularly at high income levels. It is virtually guaranteed to create an underground economy to avoid the tax. That has happened in virtually every country that has a similar plan.
Use you head, the poor and middle class spend far more of their incomes than the wealthy. Ask yourself why a woman who is a huge business consultant would be pushing for "fairness". It is because from her perspective, the wealthy and businesses pay too much.
Spit the Kool-Aide, out, this is a scheme that is full of holes. Here's just one source shooting this down for what it is.
http://www.factcheck.org/taxes/unspinning_the_fairtax.html
I think until we get our house in order the legislators should volunteer and not accept pay. However, people do not know that our house is actually in better shape than it was before BHO took over. The deficit is down by half and the stock market is at an all time high. Imagine if it were at an all time low. Or if a republican was in office now. If Romney had been elected imagine him saying see I told you I could do it. Some still think the deficit is going up because they want to remain uninformed.
Fair is in the eye of the beholder. Is it fair for 47% to pay no taxes? I don't care how much you make, you have a moral obligation to pay something for the freedom of being an American. How about this? Everyone pays 10% on the first $50k, 15% on the next $200k and 20% on everything above that. No filing status, no deductions. Every American that has income files a return on themselves. That seems fair to me and if you want to give poor people welfare, do it outside of the tax code.
You are spewing nonsense. The current tax scheme is what has resulted in an underground economy as well as criminals not paying taxes as well as the wealthy using expensive lawyers to not pay taxes. With a fair tax or national sales tax EVERYBODY pays thats the point ,no cheating. And the poor would receive a rebate every 3 months to offset the tax they pay. The reason Democrats dont want it is because they want to social engineer our society. With the fair tax this is not possible because it puts the power of determining your tax rate in your own hands, by only taxing what you buy. Of course food and medicine are tax free. You are only cheating yourself by giving this false information. This country's government spends too much that is the bottom line. grow up people.
Are you really that stupid? This is exactly how the system works. The reason 47% of people pay no taxes is because of something called deductions. Your taxable income is decreased by a certain fixed amount every year (unless you're rich enough to afford a good CPA to find you the loop holes). The people that pay no taxes make less than this amount ($8750 in 2012).
Sure. Let's make them pay their taxes off that while leaving Capital gains at a flat 15%....That'll show them how to be 'Murican.
While it sounds fun, I think if we paid our reps in DC less, they would be supplementing their income with payouts and bribes even more than they do now. Sad. Very Sad.
Citizen - NO, the "47% paying no taxes" garbage is false information. Why is this Romney-ism still being paraded around? 46% pay no income taxes, because they do not have enough income to do so. They are paying plenty of other kinds of taxes (payroll taxes, for example). A huge % of this 46% are retirees collecting social security. There are also disabled people also collecting social security. And yes, some (MUCH smaller than 47%) percentage are people on welfare, not all of whom are playing the system and not all of whom are chronic welfare collectors.
U.S. Citizen, before you shoot your mouth off why don't you do a little research about the 47%. The majority of them are people serving in the military, people on Social Security or disability and people living at or below the poverty level.
Don't bother with facts, just post nonsense, and go listen to Rush.
eric100,
Also, the fair tax would save at least 10's of billions a year in government and private sector costs because filing would be so much simpler than it is today. Sure, it would put tens of thousands of CPA's and tax attorney's out of work, but that's ok with me...they can then start to do something productive instead of just finding creative ways to play with numbers. (btw, I'm a CPA so this would affect me also)
Please go to www.FairTax.org or buy the Fair Tax books. One of them answers all the questions of those who have been against it or don't understand how it works. Income tax and all payroll deductions would go away. The Fair Tax is based on what we consume, not what we earn. When you buy any NEW goods or services you would pay taxes at the cash register. The IRS would no longer exiist. There's a ton of money saved right there. No more filing tax returns EVER! And it isn't 30%. That is something put out there by those who don't want to give up their control. Those who make "under the table money", those who are paid in cash, drug dealers, etc. don't pay taxes on that money. With the Fair Tax, everyone will pay when they purchse only NEW goods and services. I don't know about anyone else, buy I always felt that how much money I made was MY business and noone elses, and that includes the government. Remember they are your employees, not your employeRs.
Dale, You keep posting the same old BS about groups of people over 55 each putting $1000 together and creating their own businss and earning great money. What you fail to take into account is the regulations that must be met to create said business, the cost of facilities, structures, equipment, insurance, and employees. I am a small business person and I have seen new regulations created every year that cut into my profit. Those regulations come from a collection of local, state, and federal agencies. The cost of keeping up with new regulations is expensive just in itself. How about posting just ONE verifiable example of where your suggestion has work for 5 years or more. Otherwise quit blowing hot air.
enid,
I'm with you on the fair tax. Unfortunately, I think it has 0% chance of passing for the foreseeable future. I also don't think either party wants it because a complex tax code makes it easier for them to appease their donor groups (both parties).
A couple weeks ago I tried to have a detailed discussion with a friend about it, and even gave lots of examples of how to could be as fair (or more so) than the current approach - while saving billions of dollars each year...I felt like I was talking to a wall. They just kept saying it's bad...but they could never verbalize a single point that couldn't be accounted for in the implementation. it was a very depressing conversation...
Fairtax is only fair if you think the wealthy pay to much and the poor pay too little.
Don't just read the hype on their web page, research and read the analysis by economists and the CBO.
If you make over about $200,000 it's great, if you make under that you'll pay more. Someone who doesn't pay income tax still pays payroll and other taxes. Their total tax is about 15% not counting what they might pay in state sales tax. For those in that low end who pay no income tax this will be replacing their previous 15% with 23% (technically, it is actually 30% and all the analysts say it will take more like 35% to actually match current revenues). Oh, and you will still be paying your state sales tax. One other thing to keep in mind is that states will be charged this tax too on all their business. So guess what that means? They either have to drastically cut what they spend or find another way to raise revenue. Yeah, that means new state income taxes or higher sales taxes.
So yes, we will get more money out of those deadbeat poor people so we can cut taxes on businesses and the wealthy. That's fair. Not!
No doubt, the current system is messed up, but this would be worse. Your tax form might be easier but collecting an keeping track will actually become a much bigger job. The administrative costs will be higher than they are now.
For the average person who spends most of their money at the grocery or the WalMart, it won't be very easy to cheat. But on the other hand, if you run a decent sized business, you have plenty of opportunity cheat. If you can't see this you are simply naive.
OH STOP ALREADY. What kind of education and/or training do these "poor, poor, oppressed" people have? Yes there is a division of labor in this country. And there should be. OK, I'll bite on the liberal mindset and say let's raise the minimum wage to $10 or $11 an hour so these uneducated, untrained workers can survive. Then all you obese fat retards who flock to McDonalds, WaWa, Dunkin Donuts, Burger King and Taco Hell could pay $4 for a hamburger and $5 for a bagel. Deal? Also I've never heard of a customer service job only paying $7.25 (she works from her bedroom, now that's a real job, isn't it?). Established corporations, like banks, credit card and mortgage companies, online retailers, etc./ start their reps at least at $25,000 to $28,000 with full benefits and yearly increases. Nothing Butt Crap (NBC) News must advertise to find these people.
Come to Florida and you will lots of people working for minimum wage.
problem is $28,000 isn't a lot subtract rent and taxes from that it isn't alot. You could do it single, but a family would be in bad shape. But the real problem isn't low wages, its the lack of educational, training, and economic opportunities in poor neighborhoods. Crappy schools, with ever shrinking access to higher education, combined with no jobs in thier area (afterall no one wants to move any business other than a liquor store into a poor area.) condem some people to a life time of low wages, difficulty maintaining employment, and struggling to get buy.
but yeah let's raise the price of crap-donalds tp $4 for a burger then maybe there wouldn't be so many obese Americans.
crasher999, I know people that have a Masters Degree and they can't find anything more than a minimum wage job. You really are a pathetic low life, now aren't you?
The nonsense of the nutjobs. They feel a sense of superiority when the poor earn as much less then them as possible. Forty years ago most Americans worked in jobs classed as unskilled yet made an average of 3 to 4 times minimum wage. Now 30% of our workers make within a dollar or two of minimum wage. Not having a college degree shouldn't restrict you to a life of abject poverty. If minimum wage was raised to $9 or $10 an hour how would that affect any of you? Adding a nickle to a Big Mac?
You my friend are a total idiot. There are "X" number of Jobs out there and lots of people have to take lower paying jobs in order to survive. There are just as many "FAT" people in the upper ranks of life as there is those making lower wages. People like you that look down on those that have no other recourse make me sick. This Post is for Crasher the local puke.
Larry it would have implications on more that fast food jobs, any job that is currently at minimum wage the pricing of that company/service would be moved.
What good is jumping minimum wage if the prices of goods and services just go up by that same scale?
So a high number of folks that make minimum wage are "untrained" "Oppressed" Crasher Don't ask folks to stop when you spin it like no other. Liberal Bullet? What does that mean exactly? Are you implying that all the food services people are "all fat" and "all mentally retarded"? Sounds like it. BTW I work from home so is that an issue? You mention "Established corporations, like banks, credit card and mortgage companies, online retailers" Are you Fing kidding me? Do you know what is required to work at a bank or a mortgage company? A DEGREE, they are old school. Anything short of an MBA is going to get you exactly what you quoted. 25k to 28k, per year. Yea try living off that. Try living off that with a family of 4 , 3 or even 2. Dude if your going to bash NBC fine, but don't bring your flawed Fox News Logic over here. Take your ALL CAPS head lines and go. Troll.
Crasher - how do you expect people to get a futher education on 7.25/hr, huh? The ONLY way they can do that is to get government grants and/or loans. And people like YOU and others like YOU would bitch about that because they're government backed. So, they can't win. You bitch if they don't and you bitch if they do.
7.25 is NOT ENOUGH TO LIVE ON.
She likely works for a company called Alpine Access that allows people to perform customer service work from their homes. There are many companies doing this to save the overhead of a call center, but they're among the lowest paying. I know because I did this for a bit. My husband is in law school and we can't currently afford daycare for our two children. Thank God he graduates in May or we'd never survive another year in this economy.
https://www.alpineaccess.com/index.php/
Oh, and the client I worked for with this company? Amazon.com. I also worked briefly for a similar company providing customer service for Eddie Bauer and a major East Coast cable company. How does complete ignorance feel?
crasher999 - your ignornance knows no bounds.
On one hand you people cry that there should be no minimum wage and on the other you claim there are $25-$28K/year jobs that this woman should have and imply that she is lazy.
You are aware that many companies push call center jobs to folks working out of their house to save office space right?
No need to pay for a desk or electricity when the slave I mean employee provides it for them.
The new head of Yahoo is looking to save a few pennies by outsourcing all her call center folks to some 3rd world hell-hole.
She is making all those well paid work from home lazy people start working out of the office.
Most of them will quit which means she won't have to pay unemployment or give them any severance... they are all so rich they won't miss it right?
Why don't you stop drinking the cool-aide and pull your head out?
Unfortunately, the poor poor people have been selling out the US by buying overseas junk for about the last 20-30 years. It's finally come back to bite them. I never buy overseas items unless I absolutely have too... Ask a poor person if they do the same and they will tell you "ain't nobody got time for that".
Unless you were born with a silver spoon stuck you know what you know what it is like navigating when you are young. My niece just got her first job after getting her masters degree. She is living with her friend and over the years she has stayed close to her parents moving in and out and always keeping a job although lowpaying. I sincerely believe that most who are whining want everything right now, they don't watch their behavior and work ethic. That is not how you live the American dream. Ask Obama he thinks you should be responsible, educated and accountable but it somehow should be affordable if you desire. He does not promote free stuff like the other side dreams up. That is how you live the American Dream unless you are born into a rich family so you have to do nothing.
Crasher - It's obvious the milk of human kindness has soured in you.
Yeah, why raise the minimum wage? These people should just go borrow some money from their parents and start a business. That was Romney's recommendation. And the guy is pretty rich, so he must know what he's talking about.
I've wondered if maybe Mitt's dad would lend me money to start a business?
The problem that I see with raising the minimum wage is that businesses and companies would offset this by raising the cost of goods. Yeah, workers would be making more money, but they'd have to spend more money on goods themselves.
Something does need to be done though, because the rate of inflation is drastically increasing, making the dollar even more worthless than it already is. I honestly don't know how adult Americans (a lot with kids) can make it on that.
Pisses me off to no end when you read crap like this and Kerry is promising 60 some million dollars to the Syrian rebels. Take care of your own before you start taking care of others.
Your argument is nonsense. You claim raising their wages $2 would actually hurt them? You're either an idiot or trying to pretend you're a saint when clearly you're not even close. The slight rise in prices would be spread across our entire population yet the increase in pay would only go to the very poorest. Trust me they'd glady pay an extra 5c for a Big Mac to get a $2 an hour wage increase. For those who claim this would have such a huge impact on the economy I wonder how they explain the 7 or 8 states that have had a state mandated higher wage for years. I've never read an article claiming these states were suffering.
Same old tired rhetoric from Ranman87. At least they would HAVE the money zip strip.
Pisses me off when mental midgets like Ranman87 are allowed to vote.
So I brought up a concern, in a non-hostile way, and you feed me that line?
Grow up.
You worded your comment as wanting to deny them a higher minimum wage as being for their own good. If you oppose it at least be honest as to your reasoning.
I said it was a concern to me; nothing more, nothing less.
And how was I not honest?
Larry-367607- Yeah, one perfect example is California which raised the in-State minimum wage. They are loosing businesses left and right to Arizona and Texas. See how well it worked, they are going bankrupt. Try another argument. This one does not work.
Common Sense-473047 Thank you for a dose of reality which is lacking on most of these comments. The American Dream is based on starting at the bottom and working your way up. Most is society today want it all at once.
California was losing businesses when I lived there long ago before they had a higher minimum wage due to high taxes, high regulation and massive illegal immigrants draining the system. We even passed an amendment to deny benefits to illegals and the supreme court shot it down. My argument works fine you just aren't unbiased enough to admit that one action didn't cause the other.
P.S. It's spelled losing not loosing.
Larry-367607
Excuse me?
California has a state minimum of: $8.00
Illinois has a state minimum of: $8.25
District of Columbia has a minimum of: $8.00
Nevada has a state minimum of: $8.25
Massachusetts has a state minimum of: $8:00
Connecticut has a state minimum of: $8.25
Vermont has a state minimum of: $8.60
Are these the state you want to see all emulate?
California, Illinois and DC are bankrupt. They just haven't admitted it yet hoping Uncle Sam will charge in with a bailout.
Nevada? Besides one of the highest unemployment rates in the country, gambling and legalized prostitution, what do they have going for them?
Massachusetts "balances their budget" using accounting tricks but is heavily indebted.
Vermont. One of the few that has a relatively stable economy. Of course, they also have an industrious and generally self reliant population not dependent on a plethora of government services.
So, please explain how a higher minimum wage is good for any other than you looking for a raise.
Can someone please explain how CEOs are making 380x more than the average worker, yet managed just fine when they made 42x more in 1980? Perhaps that is how they can afford to accommodate a minimum wage increase. Would they rather let their businesses collapse?
Slave labor thats what we need.
So the rich can get even richer.
Is all about Wall Street.
At the beginning of the 2013 year this government raised the tax on all wage earners.
If the minimum wage rises, the cost will be passed to the consumer.
So if the prices go up it will cost this government more to operate and will need to increase taxes.
Then the minimum wage must rise to cover the day-to-day.
And this will cost the government more to operate and will need to raise taxes.
etc. etc. etc.
In the mean time imports become cheaper & cheaper. Then you have more and more people looking for any kind of available work that is able to pay this minimum wage while trying to compete in a global economy, with countries that don't have the same human rights that we here in America have.
At the beginning of 2013 this government allowed a temporary tax cut (that was passed to help people get through the recession) to expire on the scheduled expiration date. You're not paying any more in payroll taxes now than you were in 2007.
@1.11 & 1.79:
Well said, both of you. We let the "haves" run wild too the point that the bottom line was ALL they looked at...keep the investors happy...instead of keeping their employees happy. Greed won, we lost!
Like Huskergal. I too did not write my congressman. We brought a lot of this mess on ourselves. Not just by failing to write letters, but by not being "involved". I did always VOTE.
But not enough of us vote. If we ever got 75% of the registered voters out to vote, then DC just might listen. BUt as long as we do not show a substantial turn out at the polls...DC will not listen. They will just continue to do as they want because, "..we really do know what's best for you, trust us"!
IF you haven't voted and/or haven't gotten involved, that's why we're in this mess!
There should be minimum wages as much as there should be living wages based on living costs of the area the worker resides in.
Beyond the skills that employers pay a person for at a job...the employer is also paying an employee for the time, that is hours of their life they are spending at work.
No one who is working a regular job should be poor, ie, not able to feed, clothe and house themselves and be able to afford basic transportation and medical attention.
There is absolutely no evidence that raising minimum wages hurts the economy or costs jobs. What increasing wages does do is lower crime, raise tax revenue and generally improve people lives.
Your assertions are incorrect. The minimum wage is NOT intended to be a family supporting wage, that's ridiculous. It's meant for unskilled laborers entering the workforce (teenage children, for the most part) to learn job skills and learn how to act within a workplace. It was never intended for supporting people in this country illegally to raise a family. This is the reality of illegal immigration. We don't have the jobs in America to flood the country with illegals. That we have politicians who care more about being elected than the good of the country SHOULD send up red flags everywhere. But the media comes out with these stories which are nothing but garbage to grow big government. People need to develop critical thinking skills to discern what is really being discussed in todays media. It's far more propaganda, far less news.
And 40 years ago that was true. Now 30% of our workforce earns within $1 or $2 of minimum wage. Back then even store clerks earned 3 to 4 times minimum wage. Now with Walmart, 7-11 and all the other similar jobs paying little more then minimum wage even though the vast majority are held by adults with families we can no longer trust business to use what should be a wage limited to trainee's to all their employees, the wage needs to change. Are you seriously arguing that Walmart's 1 million+ workers should be teenagers or trainee's?
Why shouldn't Walmart's employees be all teenagers or trainees? A wage is tied to the skill level of the employee. How much skill does it take to open a box and arrange things on a shelf, or to bag items at the cash register? Monkeys can be trained to do this, so teenagers or trainees should have no problem with it. No economics course I have ever taken has stated that an employer is required to offer a "living" wage. If a company offers a wage and no one takes the job because the wage is too low, then the company can either do without that position or they raise the wage to a level that someone takes the job. That's the way capitalist business works.
The problem with this country now is that there aren't enough jobs to go around and our GOVERNMENT and PRESIDENT want to allow an additional 11 MILLION or more people to stay here taking the few jobs that are available. We also have a problem with the people of this country wanting a socialist based system, i.e. the government telling businesses what to pay, what to produce, the government covering health care, retirement funding, etc, and still wanting their capitalist society. You can't have it both ways.
People need to change their living habits - you don't NEED cable TV, you don't NEED cell phones, you don't NEED a new car every couple of years, you don't NEED designer clothing. You see people standing in line with the whole family having a cell phone each, paying with food stamps and going out to get in their fancy, NEW, high priced car. You have whole generations who have learned that it's easier to live on welfare, food stamps and section 8 housing instead of staying in school, and getting the education to move them out of those living conditions.
There are many things the government could do to change this, but, the politicians don't want to make the tough choices because they want the votes for the next election.
If they can find that many more power too them. At what point are they no longer trainee's, 30 years? When most of their employee's are middle age and working there for years clearly they don't fit. You complain about people paying with food stamps yet oppose requiring companies to pay enough they don't qualify. Before Walmart the argument about minimum wage wouldn't be an issue because nearly all grocery stores paid 3 or 4 times that rate. If the back lash against unions hadn't occurred since Reagan Walmart would probably be unionized and paying $15 an hour. If they were paying that much their competitors would be paying similar and minimum wage would be what it began as. For teens & trainees.
If your career goal is to work at Walmart as a stocker or greeter for 30 years, you have more wrong with you than worrying about minimum wage.
OMG give me a break! My car is 18 years old, my husband works on it, when he can, as he has to take is blind mom shopping and his dad who has had 2 stokes to the doctor. I get my clothes at the thrift store. Husband is lucky hes still working having survived 2 rounds of layoffs at his company. I was laid off after 30 years. my company laid off top of seniority down. not all the minimum wage earners are kids with no skills. some of us are older displaced people still too young to get our 401ks or social security. and we are trying to stay off welfare.
I would be willing to bet that most of the posters who are saying that minimum wage jobs are for unskilled workers and are intended for teenagers have not had to look for a job in this economy. There are only so many jobs available for people with either the education or the skills that would usually mean a higher paying job. I applied for a position as an executive assistant (a job that requires a degree and a high level of skill) and there were over 500 applicants for the same job!!! What are the people who are looking for work and competing with hundreds of people for the same job supposed to do when it comes time to pay the mortgage and put food of the table for their families? Sometimes you end up doing what you have to do and that includes taking a lower paying job.
MNEast ..your rhetoric is headed into dangerous "welfare queen" territory. Someone seeking work, every day, needs a cell phone for call backs from potential employers. As for the rest of your diatribe, well it is crap.
Common sense is completely correct. Minimum wage is for teenagers and trainees and not a career. It is for the most basic of jobs to get your foot in the door. If you don't aspire to do anything else and you want to stock shelves the rest of your life or be a telemarketer then good for you and you better accept that minimum wage is all you will make for minimum effort in life. I made minimum wage working for extra cash through college then I got a real job. Its called hard work and going from the bottom up. 69comet, if you were that talented at your job after 30 years then you shouldn't be on minimum wage for too much longer.
Also, most economists have shown that a 10% increase in minimum wage also increases unemployment 2-4%. I don't understand why at this point republicans don't just pass every single piece of legislation Obama wants to implement and just let country collapse and say welp you wanted some change there ya go.
"most economists have shown" What economists? Or is this your version of "some people say".
Larry-367607
Got a source to back that up because your posts seem to be chock-full of speculation and BS.
"In the U.S., the average wage for a full-time hourly Walmart associate is $12.57,..."- http://abcnews.go.com/Business/lower-pay-walmart-veterans-initiative-step-direction-veterans/story?id=18220671
So the average wage for someone working at WalMart is $5.27 above the current min wage. So much for your "within $1 or $2 of.." BS. Pulled that one right out of your ass huh?
I feel for everyone featured here. I worked 2 min. wage jobs before I went into the Air Force. While the military is not the answer for everyone (I'm not selling it as one, either), but for me it was the answer. Then again, we weren't at war or in the middle of a gov't melt down.
For right now, all I can say, especially for Ms Dupont is, it will get better for you. At least you are in regular community college and not one of those rip-off profit schools.
When I joined the military in '99, minimum wage jobs actually made more money. No benefits, but more money in actual pay.
Had a Drill Sgt with 2 kids and a wife... and who made so little he qualified for full welfare benefits... at 15 years of service. I realize pay has improved, maybe a lot, but... I wouldn't count on that salary staying competitive for the next 20 years or after retirement if you make it that far along.
Good luck to you, Airman. Stay safe.
If you took the minumum wage rate from the 1970's and converted it to todays dollars,(ie inflation adjusted), the minimum wage today would be beteen $10-$11/hour.
What is even worse is that the minimum wage for employees earning tips is a whopping $2.38/hour. In theory, the employer makes up any shortfall between their wage and tips to equal $7.25. In a lot of cases, the employee won't claim the make-up for fear that they will be labelled a poor performer and be fired. None other than Mr. Herman Cain, Mr.999, cut a deal with Congress when he was head of the restaurant Association and essentially lobbying for his industry.
Raising minimum wage will be a great way to create an economic stimulus without a government program. Virtually every penny that a minimum wage worker earns goes right back into the economy immediately. Overall, businesses have been seeing record profits in the last couple years, but little has gone back to employees. A lot of these companies have minimum and near minimum wage employees on their payrolls. Now is the time to do this virtually painlessly.
If a medium sized McDonalds has an average of 10 employees for 18 hours every day, The payroll goes up by $315. In reality it will be less because not all employees are at minimum. Spread that accross all the food the sell in a day and nobody even notices the difference.
A minimum wage increase usually has a way of trickling up somewhat across the wage scales up to about those making twice minimum wage. It doesn't happen overnight and not everybody will see a wage increase of $1.75/hr, but it will help push wages up a bit. That puts more money back into the economy.
Watch this show to get a good understanding about wage rates and how middle class incomes and low wage incomes have declined through the years. Very interesting stuff. http://billmoyers.com/episode/full-show-taming-capitalism-run-wild/
minimum wage increase=inflation
what good is a $2 an hr raise if all necessities increase in price?
Lots of things raise/lower inflation. Not all of the things that raise inflation are bad and not all of the things that reduce inflation are good.
Would you be OK with pegging Minimum wage to inflation starting at $7.25?
I'm guessing, that no raise in minimum wage would be acceptable. I'm also guessing you don't care much for minimum wage at all, as with most who subscribe to Milton's ideology which I see shades of in your brief post.
My advice, don't sweat it. Any increase in minimum wage will likely change very, very little about the way you live unless you yourself earn minimum wage.
Very true. All goods are much more expensive now than they were just a few years ago, how would raising the minimum wage help this. Coupled with the increased cost of fuel and looming hourly worker cuts from the oncoming health care mandate and the recipe is for disaster worse than the housing bubble pop that we never really recovered from. You can raise the minimum wage to 12 an hour and if you are only working 29 hours a week and or are laid off because of the amount of employees you have needs to be under 50 to be viable then the only conclusion is we are in serious trouble.
When you make minimum wage it should be an incentive to work harder to make more money and either rise through the ranks of your current job or get some experience under your belt to enhance ones resume. Minimum wage is for part time and high school students entering the work force and NOT a wage to live on, especially with all the inflation happening in commodities like energy and food staples.
As a business owner I can say that minimum wage increases will make the consumer pay more for my product, that IS just how business works.
I agree with your post brutaltruth
minimum wage is for the "kids" jobs
anyone who wants to better their lives AND check books should gain experience and climb the ladder of success, there was a time I swept floors for a living but decided at a young age that I wanted more out of life, anyone can get up the rungs of success, I am living proof, did I mention I was once homeless?
When you make minimum wage it should be an incentive to work harder to make more money and either rise through the ranks of your current job or get some experience under your belt to enhance ones resume. Minimum wage is for part time and high school students entering the work force and NOT a wage to live on, especially with all the inflation happening in commodities like energy and food staples.
And for those older workers who have the experience, but were pushed off the ladder and replaced by younger workers who can be paid less?
It isn't!! The title of this story is telling, 'how workers survive....' The answer? Just barely, that's how....and that's how the greed-ridden leaders in our society like it.
You want to know what raises inflation? It isn't increasing minimum wage by $1.75 ($14 per day per 8 hr employee that will actually spend that money out on main street), it is pumping trillions of fake dollars into the banks and wall street to make the wealthy in this country even more wealthy.
My 70 year old father called it nearly 10 years ago - this is the biggest wealth transfer this country has ever seen and it will go down badly.
You can tell much about a person or a business by how they spend their money, what their willing to invest in, and how they live. Money spent on the military, going from one boogeyman to the next and then if none arises, inventing them shows that the military spending is more important to some than investing in people. Outrageous, overnight killings on Wall Street, to the detriment of long term building of businesses from the ground up shows that instant wealth is more important to some than slower gains that lead to long term security for all. Lavish living, by those who's taxes were cut, or execs. who lost billions and yet received huge bonuses and yet actively campaign to cut wages of workers, eliminate unions or in this case to deny a minimum wage increase shows that greed for themselves is more important than the welfare of the rest of us.
This is the way it is, but you don't get to tinkle down on us and say it's raining, or that you only have the workers interest in mind when you say no to a meager minimum wage increase. Goodbye middle class.
The reality is, there is so many people out here hurting, so many who are just trying to hold on.
Even for those who have a college degree, they are being offered minimum wages, and many would take that, because there are no jobs.
And even when you find a job, there are so many undocumented people there who work below the minimum wage that it is hard to compete for a job.
American jobs are not just being outsourced overseas, Americans have been sold out by corporate America right here in America.
I would add to that it has also been helped along by ALL previous administrations in Washington. We just released how many illegal aliens from jail because of budget cuts (in future spending mind you, not current budget amounts). The problem is on both sides of the isle. If the Democrats thought illegal undocumented workers were going to vote Republican would this issue even creep into a minimum wage article?
Corporate America gives me a job, I work for people who worked hard to get to where they are in life. I never got a job from a poor person. Only person that works for the "poor" is someone in government, and they leach off of my labor to produce what? A shoulder to cry on and a pittance of assistance that just barely keeps your head above water? The working poor. How would increasing the minimum wage help that?
Sorry, brutaltruch, the corporation I work for has been hiring only H1B visa programmers. These are legal aliens brought here from overseas because they can be paid less.
ryiann makes some good points. I agree, brutaltruth, that this situation we are in has been helped along by all previous administrations in Washington for several decades now. Many mistakes have been made on both sides of this issue. I realize, brutaltruth, that Corporate America has given you a job, and there are some good ethical corporations still out there who endeavor to do right by their workers and also make a decent reasonable profit. A significant part of Corporate America has also chosen to do some very seriously bad things. I am thinking of corporations that outsourced to locales where they could get extremely cheap labor and no pollution standards (have you noticed the huge increase in CO2 emissions, and pollution by China and other countries?) I am also thinking of the passing of the Graham Leach Bliley Act of 1999 that rescinded the Glass Steagall Act that was passed during the 1930's to prevent a Great Depression from ever happening again. The Glass Steagall Act was there all those years to keep the greedy from gamboling with other people's money--money that was put in good faith into retirement accounts, etc. I'm not against Wall Street trading, as long as there are certain safeguards there, but Graham Leach Bliley 1999 removed what few remained. Overwhelmingly, both Repubs and Demos voted for the Graham Leach Bliley Act. That tells me something!
When it comes to government assistance, LBJ's Great Society plan made several very large mistakes. The first was not tying help to meaningful work, the second was that how it was done broke up families--the children could not receive assistance if the father was still in the home. By the time those mistakes were recognized, a whole generation or two of one parent families had become dependent on welfare. Add to that, what I witnessed as a Substance Abuse Counselor during the 1990's. People were on SSI for addictions and alcoholism. Yes, those are real diseases, and the people who suffer with those conditions need help. But they need help to get clean and sober, but NOT enabled to continue in the same destructive manner. The law finally changed, and those on SSI had to be in treatment in order to keep getting SSI, and transferred to a payee who was NOT their drug dealer (yes, we actually had some cases where the payee was the drug dealer! I was very VERY glad to be a part of putting THAT to an end!) or an enabling family member. Catholic Charities was one such payee people transferred to. The county also had a payee system they could transfer to. And I believe that food stamps (EBT card these days) should be run more like the WIC program is run. And there are a lot of people who make good use of government programs to get the temporary help they need while at the same time, working hard at minimum wage jobs. And how can anyone afford healthcare without a job that offers that benefit? WOW!!!
There is so much more I could say, but this is getting long.
The whole situation we in the USA and the world are in today looks to me like a bunch of big Gordian Knots all tangled together.
My current wage IS $ 9.00 per hour, only 1/2 of the wage I made ten years ago. I work 40 hours per week but am struggling and seem to get farther behind each month. At $ 9.00 per hour, a single person takes home $ 1100.00 per month; take away $ 450.00 rent, $ 400.00 monthly car payment and insurance and that leaves just enough to starve on. With gas at $ 4.00 per gallon, the rest of my income goes toward just getting back and forth to work. Raising the minimum wage is not the answer, lowering my taxes (in January, my payroll taxes increased by $ 30. 00 per month) lowering prices, offering help ( I get no food stamps and have no health insurance). Gas prices are outrageous and car repairs are even worse. If I get sick, I lose $ 50.00 per day and might not be able to make my rent. I am one step away from homelessness and it is frightening. Sure, I could use more money, but the spending power of the money I do have is the real issue.
I get your budget crunch, but given your budget crunch why a $400 a month car payment? Why a $20-$25k car on $9 per hour?
The people in congress pay $3.00 for bars of bath soap; and so does the minimum wage worker. Congress pays $4.00 for a pound of ground beef and so does the minimum wage worker. Think about that the next time you are tempted to vote into office a liberal, leftist who wants to "help" the down and out. The down and out would benefit from conservative principles and that means "you can help yourself out of poverty when the government gets the hell out of the way". In the meantime, no conservative wants their neighbors to starve, in spite of what the purchased press says.
Making $9 an hour and opposing a raise in minimum wage doesn't make me think you're too sharp. If your employer pays $1.75 an hour over minimum wage he'd likely soon increase it by that much. Any raise in minimum wage is paid for spread throughout the population from the middle class and wealthy. The extra pay goes entirely to the very poorest. Australia has a $17 (In U.S. dollars) minimum wage, a 5.2% unemployment and very low inflation.
Simply raising the minimum wage would only help for a few months while prices adjust. tying it to the cost of living is a start in the right direction, but what we need is a way to stop outsourcing and bring our manufacturing base back to it's former glory. If we're not producing goods than we're not actually producing wealth, We're just passing it back and forth while the people that own the companies we work for take a cut each time. And we can only do that so many times before we don't have enough to get by on. As far as you're personal situation is concerned though You're living well beyond You're means right now. How you got a $400 a month car note on that wage I'll never know but you May have to take a credit hit and drop the car note for a cheaper one. get something that runs and save $200 a month. Or better yet get a roommate I'm not saying it's fine that you would have to do that but That's just some personal advice Based on my experience. Take it or leave it as you see best. I had to do both for the better part of the last decade as I was on my way to a career in the printing industry when the bottom fell out of it. But that's another story... Good luck man
If you read C. Butler's comment a little closer he/she said, "$400.00 monthly car payment AND insurance" which makes his/her car payment around $239.00 and insurance around $170.00 per month.
A large part of the problem is "supply and demand" in this case it's two fold -
1) There is a small supply of jobs, and a large demand for those jobs, so employers can pay somone less for doing a job that 6 years ago demanded a higher salary.
2) Add to the small supply of available jobs the undocumented workers, willling to do that job for less than a legal citizen can afford to take it for. After all, if you don't have to pay taxes, and don't show income you can still get food stamps and state aid.
Larry - If you raise the minimum wage two things will happen, the cost of labor goes up, so the cost of the product goes up. Profit margins have to remain the same. Less people will get jobs, as those profit margins must be maintained.
The REAL solution is to get more companies to create MORE jobs. The smaller the number of people looking for work, the more companies have to pay to get somone to fill the position. COMPITITION.
Seems that the more people tell you the same thing, the louder you oppose it, weak arguments and weak minds think loud = right.
Nonsense. Almost all companies that pay near minimum wage are retail. Yes prices would go up a penny or two an item and we'd never notice You contradict yourself. You say they'd raise prices to pay the higher rate yet have to hire less. That's ridiculous. Prices reflect the cost of operating the business including labor. There's no reason that cost can't be $9 an hour. No national company should pay so little that many of their employee's qualify for food stamps and medicaid.
Oh? Read some of the comments here.
Companies create more jobs when there is a demand for the product. When a large number of people live on subsistance-level wages they're going to only be spending money on necessities. Therefore little demand for "optional" products and services. Therefore no need for companies to expand their production and adding additional jobs.
Which they generally do using overseas labor, anyway.
C Butler - good luck to you. At first I thought $400 car payment, but as someone else pointed out, that figure you gave as also including insurance. Depending on public transportation in your area, it's cost, and if it is available to take you to work, you might be able to save some money on gas and maybe even on insurance if it means that you can cut the insurance payment by cutting the number of miles you drive each month. And if you simply drive your car a little bit once each week, like to the store, then you can keep it in good running order, put less wear and tear on it, etc. Or carpooling, if that's feasible for you. Anyway, just a thought. And I hope you don't feel alone in all of this - most Americans are having to find ways to cut back, conserve, etc just to make it these days.
What a disgusting lack of empathy, Anne.
In any case, it does not matter that you make six figures. Some day, you will sit in your own p*$$ in a nursing home, just like the people you show no compassion for. When you are a complete %*^#$ to the lowly nurses that only make about $50k/year, karma will pay you a visit.
By the way, it is *bawling. If you went to college, no excuses for bad spelling.
Messing with minimum wage just creates inflation. If the guy flipping $2 hamburgers get a $1.75 per hour raise then the price of hamburgers will go up. the person/company that employs the workers isn't going to just take the additional payroll out of the cofer...they will pass it on
So? As your employer passes on your cost theirs would as well. What's your point? The only difference between your employer and those at Walmart and McDonalds is that your employer pays a fair wage without being forced to.
No, my employers hires people who are qualified for the jobs---qualified with education and/or skills to complete certains tasks and they pay those people based upon that qualification. If my wage was artificially increased then the costs would be passed on to the consumer causing related cost increases
Do you actually think just taking an extra $1.75 per minimum worker from employers will not have a ripple effect on other goods and services to all consumers?
So? A very minor impact spread across the entire population but the raise only goes to the very poor. You can't afford an extra nickle for a Big Mac? Before I retired I'd been at my company for 20 years and was making $10 an hour more than a new employee. I knew my employer could replace me and save a lot. Luckily I didn't work at Walmart. If you were honest and have been at your company a long time you know you could be replaced saving your company money. If you claim your company hires paying the lowest amount the can fill those positions I think you lie. Most companies dont take the Walmart approach.
Matt - yes a little bit extra will help those who need it and the extra penny you will pay won't hurt you.
The poorest among us spend all that they have so that extra money will be circulated right back into the economy and improve all of us.
Seriously? Who pays $170 a month in car insurance? Time to switch providers.
Larry, you act as if the employees are victims. Life is about choices. Let them start their own business and see how easy that is.
Before I retired I'd been at my company for 20 years and was making $10 an hour more than a new employee. I knew my employer could replace me and save a lot.
And many employers are doing just that.
A lot of insurance companies are now using credit scores in determining their rates, not claims history.
i pay 180 a month - it was the cheapest i could find.....
i give props to the people making it on minimum wage - i couldn't do it
once again our government can dictate to a business how much they have to pay their employees,how much they have to pay for health care,taxes ..no wonder our small companies cant make it..too much government
Boo friggin hoo. If they can't afford minimum wage they should fold.
it is not other peoples obligation to work for you at slave wages so YOU can live nicely. If you can't pay a fair wage your business isn't do well enough to warrant employees
Cathleen, You hit the nail on the head. It is not the government's job to tell a company how much to pay their employees. This is putting small businesses out of business. It is however, the employees job, to ensure that they get rid of perks like cell phones and cars (two very expensive, unnecessary items when you cannot afford them). Then, you get another part time job on top of a full time job. I worked two full time jobs most of my life and then I opened my own business. It was booming from 2001 until now. I once had over 50 employees and Obamacare taxes and other sneaky taxes (unemployment assessments), skyrocketing healthcare and insurance gave me no choice but to start closing down operations. I had to pass these escalating costs onto the customer and now the customers no longer have money to pay the necessary services I provide. People are allowing their homes to fall into disrepair and I'm seeing blight starting to infest neighborhoods. My tip to all who think raising min. wage is a good idea, think again. Those making min. wage are NOT SKILLED labor. They are lucky they have a job and should be working two if they can't make ends meet.
It is the governments job to make sure that workers are not being taking advantage of...
Ginny Merenda O'Brien -
You are seriously mistaken if you believe that only unskilled labor are working at minimum wage. I would guess you have not had to compete with 500 other applicants for the same position only recently. Sometimes, like you said, you have to take the low paying job in order to feed your family.
Those customers probably found someone else who was willing to provide those service and also provide their employees a living wage and affordage health care without passing the cost onto them. When employees have health care coverage, they tend to be healthier than those who do not. An employee with no medical coverage will likely pass on the virus or bacteria to their fellow employees as they will come to work sick.
Unless you have a job and a home near a good mass transit system, how do you get to your job without a car?
And it's impossible to even find a job without a phone of some kind. Believe it or not, not every minimum wage worker has an iPhone and a $200/month data plan.
For my birthday, I want Ginny, and those like her to lose her job and have to go find anoither one. Maybe then she won't be so compelled to get on her high horse. Or maybe Ginny is sitting atop her high horse collecting her SS and other "handouts" while looking down her nose in between bon-bons.
Larry-367607
Right, because having no job is better than having a min wage job. Spent a lot of time thinking that one through huh?
To comment I can only use a phrase folks used back in the 1960's; My heart pumps the three P's, Purple Panther Piss. I've been retired since 2003 and draw a average SS benefit and it comes out to a little less than the minimum wage. I budget on $1150 between eagle flights and it covers rent, utilities, groceries and gas. I live in a nice two-bedroom apartment in a nice apartment complex, the rent is $430. I have no other income, I learned quick when I retired that what I want and what I need are not the same thing. Sure, there are folks living here that have a hard time, like one guy who always tells me; "You're on SS and so am I, you have three little dogs and I can't even afford one, it's just not fair!" Lol, that from a guy who comes out of a store with a couple six-packs of beer and a carton of cigarettes a week. Mention that to him and I get; "That's none of your business!" Right, and it's none of his business how many little dogs I have and as for "Fair," well, that's a matter of individual perspective. Other folks having more is always unfair.
Not sure what your point is? None of this has anything to do with minimum wage or the story. Bear in mind living on a fixed income like SS or low wages has always been about doing without. One nice thing about your SS check is they don't take any money out for taxes. For the unfortunate minimum wages worker they have to work extra time so they can take payroll taxes out to pay for your SS check.
But you are right if the guy you are talking about really wanted a little dog he would cut back on the beer and cigs. He set his priorities and so did you, nothing at all unfair about that. Sounds more like the other guy regrets the priorities he has set but is to lazy or addicted to change.
While it's great you're able to do well on so little there may be other issues medical and such that doesn't leave them the ability to do as well and there isn't many places where you can rent a nice 2 bedroom apartment for $430 a month.
That's for sure Larry. I got a real good deal on a place a few years back, right around $430 a month I think but it was only a one bedroom. The apartment was going for a lot less than those around it, soon figured out why. Apparently the previous tenant had shot himself in there. Found where they had done a half ass job of cleaning the wall. But other than that its hard to find a place that cheap.
Typically most minimum wage employees don't have health coverage.
Here in Denver the places where you can find an apartment for $430 a month are in areas where you have the occasional bullet coming through the wall, and the smell from the meth lab next door keeps you awake at night.
My point is to show that there are people working for minimum wage, and less, doing ok and using a hardship case to promote a socially sensitive agenda is wrong. As for raising the minimum wage, well, it sounds so right and good, but there's the matter of personal worth. I've worked blue collar, on the clock all my working life and there are employees who aren't worth even the minimum wage. If the minimum wage is $8 (Using figures easy to deal with mathematically) and someone is making $9 then that someone is worth $1 more. Raise the minimum to $9 that employee isn't worth as much, to maintain his worth he should get $10. What is worth? Attitude, loyalty and skill. Another factor of course is product price; A manufactured product can only be sold for so much, and a product has a cost to manufacture. Pay more than what the cost of the product can support the product can't be sold, if it can't be sold the company goes out of business. Many seem to have an answer to that; Everyone should be paid the same, lol.
My boss used to say he likes to buy people like you for what you are really worth then sell you for what YOU think you are worth.
Lol, your boss must really be a old guy, slavery ended a long time ago.
Thing is you are not working for minimum wage, you are retired on SS. For the working poor they are not doing ok, they are getting by. Problem is they are always one pay check away from being homeless, which means if they suddenly (through illness or accident) find themselves unable to work they lose everything. Where as in your case you have medicare and your check isn't dependent on if you can work or not. So there is no real comparison. Sure its true that those people who can budget money better, and forgo wants in favor of necessities can get by a lot better. Heck a young single person who lives modestly can get by quite well on minimum wage, I did for a number of years. Except in emergencies I had dad to fall back on.
But for may of these people in poor neighborhood poor schools, shrinking access to higher education, and poor economic opportunities conspire to trap many people in dead end low wage jobs. I'm not convinced raising the minimum wage is the right answer, but the problem is that most of these familes turn to government programs to pick up the slack which costs us all. without which most of these familes don't make it no matter how well they budget their money.
I am sick of you cons saying the poor are lazy, shiftless, unmotivated. Most people I know working for minimum wage work their asses off. They get no holidays, no vacation, they can't save unless they're starving.
Compare that to some of the "job creators". The government is OK so long as they're spending money on corporate welfare. The education most older people received was readily available, the infrastructure most of them had taken advantage of was paid for by the government with taxes. Now that you've got yours, to hell with everyone that follows. Your reward awaits you, can you pass through the eye of a needle?
A law should be passed that mandates "workers" be compensated fairly before "share holders". Arrive at an equitable percentage wherein workers benefit from the profits they produce at the companies they work for in a proportion that surmounts that of the share holder.
I like it... But You'd have to keep the executive bonuses from eating up all the profits before the employees get paid. Not to mention somebody will probably call it communism and about half the public would by it.
Yeah, cool. So, who, what group will determine the percentages? Lol, a workers committee elected by the workers.
Before my disability came through, I had to take temp jobs paying $8/hr--the same wage I was paid 30 years ago. I've been hearing from Republicans, if they raise the rate, they will have to let people go, usually over some trivial amount like .25/hr. Heck, I'll just give them a quarter, and keep the job. While my pay, adjusted for inflation was dimished, the "job creators" hardly ever budged on higher wages, and if so, it was in cents, never in dollars. Oh, did I mention I have 2 degrees, and could not find a job in my area--IT, and Medical Technology. Younger and cheaper is the key, so watch out kids, your gravy train of $7.50/hr. won't last forever.
kind of wonder what that's all about?
Lets see..
In 2003 a co-worker was stealing from the company and tried to blame him so he had an argument and management decided to let them both go to be sure they got the thief.
And in 2010 the bank he was working security at closed its branch.
Both those are hypothetical but it shows not all bad things happen to people because they deserve it and you don't know why these things happened so you shouldn't jump to conclusions.
Emerald, nobody deserves to have bad things happen to them, and, nobody deserves to have good things happen to them. I can only speak for myself and I learned long ago that I didn't "Deserve" anything, from anyone and from life. My basic philosophy of life is simple; "I won't live my life for the sake of another and I won't demand that another live his life for my sake." Sure, I've worked for the sake of someone else, but that was as a employee and "Equal value for value trade" covered that.
What about people on Social Security - they are making a lot less! But, of course, people don't count any more - American freedom is a bought freedom, where "only I count" is the new Pledge of Allegence!
Social Security was never meant to be a persons entire income.
It was a means to rob people and use our ss to fund other domestic and foreign issues!
neither is welfare suppose to be a way of life,but as the retired workers get less and less,the freebies to layabouts increase every year,free rent,free food,phones,insurance,cash etc. SUCH A BACKWARDS SYSTEM
I'm a senior on SS but had the foresight to invest in my companies 403B knowing with my yearly statements what I'd be getting. Justifying a low minimum wage for people working full time because a retiree sitting on his ass gets little more makes me think the Alzheimer's is close.
I started paying into SS in 1960 when I graduated from high school. I never expected SS to be my only income when I retired. But, lol, I saw as the years went by that I was never going to stay at any one place long enough to qualify for a pension, SS was going to be my only source of income when I retired. I never invested in any IRA's or 401K's, things like that. In my early 50's I started working a 2nd job and all the OT I could to increase my SS account. When I was 61 I was laid off, so, I drew unemployment. When it appeared that was going to run out I went and took early 62 retirement and I've been drawing SS since 2003. I think I get by just fine and it bugs the hell out of me when hard-ship cases are promoted to further a agenda. Some claim that I'll eventually be getting more than I paid in. Lol, man, I sure hope so, and so what? When I was working and paying in some of what I paid in went to retired folks drawing more than what they had paid in. That was called a "Contract between the generations."
been there have been unemployed for over a year. most office jobs want skills am re-learning. and retail work seems to believe am over-qualified. thank goodness for unenmployment benefits and help from friends. not sure if raising minium wage help much.
Hey, Why dosn't Obama give me a raise to!!! Haven't gotten one in two and a half years.
If you worked for him he would as he did all government employee's. Why doesn't Trump, Buffet or anyone else you don't work for give you a raise? Idiot.
I haven't had a raise in more than 5 years. Meanwhile watching everything going up in price.
Even I'm having a hard time nowadays. Stopped going out to dinner, Haven't had new clothes or shoes for work in 3 years.
I think everyone is having a very hard time.
Beoffnow, Larry has a really good point, but I'd also like to add that there would be a ripple effect if minimum wage was increased and most jobs would likely pay better.
I don't want to appear rude or confrontational but what have you done to make yourself more valuable as a employee, more "Deserving" of a raise?
Govenment wages have been frozen for at least the past two years. Because of the sequester government workers will be furloughed withouth pay two days per pay period. There are exceptions to the furlough, like the military, but by and large it affects all other gov employees. Not sure where you got the "if you worked for him he would as he did all government employees" Which brings me to another point, Obama can only spend money that's been approved for spending by Congress, why does everyone keep talking about money the President spends, and not money that the Congress spends?
Minimum wage is for unskilled labor, including teenagers and people just entering the workforce. It is not meant to be a wage for people with experience and training. These people with spouses and children should have lots of work experience. They won't be living on minimum wage. If they are living on minimum wage, they have many more problems that increasing their wage will solve. They may have addiction problems or legal issues. Furthermore, if you raise minimum wage, you will squeeze out even more people from the job market because profit margins will be lower. Minimum wage is a bad idea. It should have never been implemented in the first place, but now that we have it people want more and more.
We had a period of time around the turn of the century when there wasn't a minimum wage. That led to labor riots, strikes and labor unions. We had shanty towns around every major city similar to Rio and India. We won't allow that day to ever come again so dream on.
Minimum wage is not just for unskilled labor anymore... the globalists are suppressing all wages and it won't be long that your job with be outsourced/offshored and you will be begging for a minimum wage position.
You may believe minimum wage is for teenagers and trainees, however that's just not how it is. I have a degree and over 15 years experience in a technical field including 6 years in management. I lost my job when production was moved from Florida to the Philippines. I muddled through taking part-time jobs and changing careers for the last 10 years and eventually took a job in hospitality. I was lucky to make $10\hr plus tips and was seriously underemployed. I was let go after 3 1/2 years when the company changed ownership and was replaced with an $8\hr employee. I qualified for unemployment and applied for thousands of jobs, got a hand-full of phone interviews that did not turn into job offers because I didn't have recent experience answering phones or filing or working at a storage facility. In most cases I was considered overqualified and for some I didn't qualify because I had not performed the skills required as my only job function so I was not even granted a face-to-face interview. Eventually after more than a year of unemployment I took the first job offered a management position at an auto parts store that paid $9.25 an hour. Sadly, unemployment paid 65% of my previous salary and my new job paid less than that. All the while companies are posting record profits. It's been 20 years since the last time I've worked for so little and back then, I was unskilled and had little experience.
Many folks out there have not felt the heat and cannot see the light. I hope you are not affected by the way things are today, but please don't judge those of us that are. I'm educated, skilled, willing and able to do or learn whatever's necessary, unfortunately in today's world that's just not enough.
Sounds like a bad experience. I remember working in a shop and complaining because I wasn't making more money, we had just had our first kid. The guys in the shop got fed up with hearing it, so; "Kid, you're not making more because you're not worth more, do what we did; Get a part-time job or something, learn something to make yourself more valuable." So, lol, I got a part-time job and learned to set-up and run mills and lathes. I became more valuable and was paid accordingly; Equal value for value trade. Ok, some say that not everyone can do that. Right, and there comes a time when it's just "Tough baby, too damn bad."
hmmm?-3780484 --I was born in the early 1950's, and I lost my job due to downsizing that came as a result of funding loss in 2008. People my age find it harder to find work because of our age. If it weren't for my wonderful soul-mate boyfriend marrying me and sharing bills, I would have lost my house. Thank goodness I had a modest retirement due to my first husband providing for that retirement before he passed away, or my second husband and I would not be able to make it on his income alone. Together we squeeze by. Your description of what happened to you is very representative of what is happening to many in the USA today. My best thoughts, wishes, and prayers to you and all of us in similar circumstances. Unfortunately, I believe it will get worse before it gets better--I hope I am wrong on that! I think we will see more people getting together and sharing living costs to be able to make it these days. One of the things I do is grow a lot of our own food, and I want to be able to grow enough to sell at a local farmers market. That is what I am currently working on. Best of luck to you.
Not to seem harsh or not "With it" but if you and your 2nd husband couldn't make it without what was planned for and provided by your 1st husband, maybe you shouldn't have remarried. A lot of people simply live together now and it doesn't carry the social stigma it once did. Hell, I've heard of elderly married couples divorcing and continuing to live together so that each could draw full SS from their individual accounts. Ok, I can say all that because I've never been faced with the problems, I was married for 36 years and now I'm single. Not because of divorce, my wife died in 2000 but there is still a bit of logic and reason to apply to situations, reasoning logically to enhance one's own life.
Hi Mellowfello1526615--In our situation,it makes no difference financially being married, or not married and living together. I do not want to apply for Social Security until I turn 64 since I will be able to get a better monthly payment if I wait until I turn 64. I agree, that simply living together does not carry the social stigma it once did and many people find it economically advantageous to do so. It simply did not matter one way or another in our situation whether we were married or simply living together. I agree that logic and reason needs to be applied to situations. Had my own retirement changed or been discontinued for getting married, my hubby and I would be living together but not married.
immediately stop trade agreements, ie china.
immediately stop federal aide to other countries, name 12 easily. put u.s. troops on the street corners, controlling violence. the government will always, always rule. how could you think otherwise.
immediately socialize medical care for every us citizen.
harsh times? harsh measures! not popular, nothing personal, just business...
You had me till you said put u.s. troops on street corners. I'm guessing you're a troll pretending to be a Liberal and doing a horrible job at it but Either way NO.
Yesterday, the stock market closed at its highest point EVER! That means that corporations are making higher profits than ever before, but they are using that money to line investors pockets instead of paying employees a living wage. If wages had kept pace with profits, the minimum wage would be over $20.00 an hour today.
Incorrect. The minimum wage would still be the same or lower and that would be a good thing. The stock market itself no longer represents the economy, in the past a strong stock market meant money being invested in manufacturing new hires and updating equipment ..... now it just represents middle-class wages flowing to 3rd world. Part of the U.N.s mandate to "End World Poverty" by redistribution of wealth (never a good thing) from developed world to the 3rd world, as always all it does is create universal poverty. Now back to the minimum wage: it never never never catches up to inflation and it never helps anyone. Wages go up, cost of living goes up and the only winner is the nanny state in the form of tax creep and inflation. The classic next step of the Democratic Party will now be to induce inflation in order to make the interest payment on that real money it borrows every hour with cheap money tomorrow (get ready for 10%+ mortgage and car loans) ..... the loser is any citizen on fixed income (such as welfare) or is fortunate enough to still have any savings in clintons "new economy". As for DuPont? Well she has one of those wonderful "service related" jobs clinton promised as part of his economic vision and should be glad it hasnt been exported to Pakistan or India yet!
As the Nanny-State grows taxation grows. It has to pay for all those goodies and it does so by taxing the very ones who need the goodies. B.C. Canada for example ......... minimum wage is $10.50hr.. Fantastic right? Well everything, and I do mean everything costs twice as much. Food, gasoline, clothing, everything... 99% of that as a result of taxation at the till so no one gets a better quality of life and the legitimate functions of the government get neglected, roads are a mess, that "universal medical" is on par with the quality the poorest citizen in the U.S. gets for free (but pays for monthly in B.C.) public transportation a mess, even car insurance is twice the price at half the coverage, etc..
Because since the creation of the Walmart business model businesses believe paying minimum wage is perfectly reasonable for unskilled labor. A minimum wage that was originally began as a wage for teenagers and trainee's are now the norm for all retail jobs about 30% of all jobs. If you're in your 50's or 60's you remember cashiers at the local grocery paying $10 an hour when minimum wage was $2.50. Now few pay that when it's $7.25. If you argue that minimum wage is only for teenagers and trainee's then it's hard to justify paying a 60 year old woman that amount who's been working at the same place for 20 years. When does she qualify as trained?
Larry ....Welome to clintons "new economy" !!!! Trained is not the issue. What is the skill level, demand and value of return on the job? A minimum wage job is paid minimum wage because there are 10 people who can do the job for every job available. Those jobs were never meant to be careers, they are stepping stones to advance. As long as there are more people willing to do them they will never pay more. They used to be the route for entry to the workforce, teenagers and 2nd income positions, not life-long careers. Yes a cashier was over-paid but not by much, it was a low skilled position that any reasonably educated citizen could do (today the ability to count to ten and take away 2 without removing shoes would mean college degree level).
That's simply untrue. Companies expected to pay a living wage and number of people available had nothing to do with it. In the 60's and 70's grocery clerks made $10 an hour when minimum wage was $2.50 and McDonalds was the only one that paid it. Walmart changed it all. It was no longer an employers responsibility to pay a living wage but simply pay all employees minimum wage. Minimum wage was designed for teens & trainees. We shouldn't allow a company like Walmart to pay 1 million+ workers almost all adults with families a wage designed for teens & trainees.
When cashiers were making $10 an hour, the grocery store wasn't being forced to pay part-time 16 year old bag boys and stockers $7.25 an hour. They could afford to pay their more skilled employees a higher wage. Now, because the unskilled have to be paid a mandated wage, the stores can't afford to pay those higher wages. That 60 year old woman can work another 10 years, and as long as minimum wage for unskilled employees continues to increase, she'll never see hers go any higher. The extra money that may have been allocated for raises for "trained" employees, now has to go to the ones with little or no skills ... how is that frair???
That's ridiculous. Paying $10 an hour when minimum wage was $2.50 was possible in your mind because of the cost of baggers? Wow. If you've been in any Walmart lately you probably noticed they have few if any baggers, the cashier does it all. If the cost of baggers holds back wages for the cashiers then having no baggers should raise them. And yet they only make a little over minimum wage. Your logic is illogical. You claim paying less skilled workers higher wages holds back wages for other workers means Walmart with it's 1 million+ workers is holding back the pay of the skilled ones. That would be the CEO and CFO. Are you for real?
As long as there are more people
willingforced to do them they will never pay more.There, fixed it for you.
Dennis, you are full of crap. BC, along with all the rest of Canada has a socialized medicine program which provides equal care for all citizens and is part of their benefits from the tax code (income tax). It's true that other costs, for consumables are higher but with a higher income for similarly situated labor, they can afford a better living standard and do. Having healthcare that doesn't bankrupt, or preclude a person from seeking professional help and medicines increases not only the lifespan, but the ability to work longer. In the USA, there IS NO free ride and especially whenever it comes to health care. Many of us simply suffer through our afflictions, while it debilitates us and our ability to work and/or enjoy life. That is much of the problem right there... doctors and pharmacists making well over six figures and charging astronomical prices for their services.
Hate to rain on your party, but that money was only a product of Mr. Bernanke buying treasury bonds. It is inflation that has the markets high, not big profits. It is inflation that is also starving us out of house and home. End the Fed, Stop the income tax, stop the spending, and then let us have a talk. Deflation will be in place, gas will be cheaper, and so will everything else. Replace the fed with Silver and Gold and tada! We are on the road to recovery!
I stated this @!$%# would happen when the US government wanted to implement NAFTA, the start of our US companies leaving for cheap labor elsewhere, and yet the American people voted or it. So they left. Now how do you feel for those poor soles in other countries? I stated to people that if US companies want to leave here for cheap labor than they sell to the cheap labor they hire and they do not take any industry trade or equipment with them to build their companies outside the USA, What is used and made in the USA ,stays in the USA. If they leave they start from scratch... I do not buy from them because they left and added the cheap labor with the idea of selling back to the USA citizens their products to make their outrageous profits. and a poor quality product it is. Well what do you expect when one is paid pennies an hour to keep a US company rolling in the dough?
My Thoughts On This Situation,,, And who let these companies leave. The US Government... Made in USA... Left USA--- for cheap labor. Traitors of a free society. If it was not for the USA and the US workers, they would have no companies...
This exportation of jobs in order to "redistribute wealth" from developed world to 3rd world is only possible with government incentives, wages being the lowest factor. Since studies done since 1970s it has been established that the N.American worker was the most productive in the world, unless the difinition of that term has changed that meant the N.American workforce produced the more profit on every dollar invested so wages itself is pretty much irrelevent in the big picture. Where it wins with out is lower state and federal taxes (even tax incentives to export the backbone of the Republic since the Revolutionary War), lower infrastructure cost, lax environmental impact costs, lower or non-existant benefit cost, and then yes ... lower "minimum wage" cost.
How about taxing any company that has exported middle-class producing jobs over the last 20 years for the tax revenue lost of the now extinct middle-class tax base? The millions of displaced middle-class tax paying productive workforce that was the foundation of the Republic and the envy of the world.When companies have to pick up the slack for the lost income tax, local sales tax and all other legitimate taxation that supported the legitimate functions of a Federal government that this leftist fantasy made possible things would change very quickly and there would once again be a healthy economy that 3 generations of the workforce has no concept of.
There are a few things wrong with that statement.
One of the big ones is that the jobs had gone away long before NAFTA. The US was was around 5 percent up until 1974, when it went to 8 percent, and since then it's been hovering around that number. After NAFTA unemployment actually went down for a few years to the pre-1974 levels then started coming back up.
The other is that most of the jobs that go away are going to India and China, not to Mexico and Canada, which are ostensibly the two major beneficiaries of NAFTA. I don't see Apple making many iPhones in Mexico and when I call tech support I seldom get anybody with a Mexican accent.
I agree that we need to start taxing companies for exporting jobs and also we need to start taxing them for importing employees--if the guy really is the only one in the whole world that can do what they hired him to do they shouldn't mind paying a tax on him equal to his salary multiplied by twice the percentage difference in median income for his country and the US.
I'm no expert on domestic or global economics but it appears that some companies moved their manufacturing to other countries to get a cheaper labor force. Why? Because their product line(s) were no longer profitable and desired by the purchasing public, they could no longer maintain a share of the market. The public wanted lower prices and imports provided that. Some say that WalMart sells products made elsewhere. Lol, if WalMart sold the same quality products but made in America nobody would buy them, they would cost too much. The main business of a business is to stay in business, not go out of business. Any finger pointing should be at us, the buying public, we should push "Buy American." Lol, cool, tell that to someone who works hard at a job, tell that person that he can't buy XYZ product at WalMart, he has to buy it at a place selling only "Made in America." And, pay 20% to 30% more for it. That's why I shop at WalMart, for the biggest bang for the buck. There are those who say that they are willing to pay higher prices for American made. Hey, it's cool, and it's also their money and their choice. Is there an option? Certainly, the government can lay tariffs on all imports that are also made here, that would level the price field, and, lol, would also bring on the "Invasion of privacy" folks with their line about government taking away their right to buy what they want, from where they want and for the price they're willing to pay.
I see at least two posters above that mention rent at $450.00/month. Wow, where the heck do you guys live? Here in VA, you can't find a one bedroom apartment for less than $900.00/month. And that's in the worst parts of town. The cost of living outpaces the wage some people make. I don't see how they make it when probably 1/3 of their take home is spent on keeping a roof over their heads.
I worked for minimum wage for many years until I wised up and went to the local community college and got an associates degree. It took a few years to work my way up (hey you gotta start somewhere!), and believe me I worked my buns off, but now am making over $50K a year. I had to ask myself, "Why did I wait so long?". You don't want to make minimum wage? Get a decent education. Employers want an educated work force. That mantra has been resounding in this country for decades. You find a decent paying job but don't like it? Don't quit it until you find another. Working for a living with nothing but a high school education is going to get you a minimum wage job. Nothing new here.
Sounds like the young woman is working towards getting out of her poverty and I hope she succeeds. The elder gentleman, however, unless he improves his skills by attending classes he's not going anywhere. It's a personal decision. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Take some.
Yeah... High School education here. I work in a fab shop and make about 40k a year and I'm only 2.5 years into the field.The avg rent around here is about $600 for a 1 br in a decent neighborhood. So what do I need a student loan for?
Employers want an educated work force. That mantra has been resounding in this country for decades. You find a decent paying job but don't like it? Don't quit it until you find another. Working for a living with nothing but a high school education is going to get you a minimum wage job. Nothing new here.
Nonsense. 30 years ago half the jobs in the country were unskilled but only companies like McDonalds using teenagers paid anywhere near that low. Now 30% of all jobs pay little better then minimum wage because companies like Walmart decided they'd get an edge by hiring people at minimum wage when most competitors paid 3 or 4 times that. The idiocy of the logic that yes minimum wage isn't a living wage but if you don't have a degree tough. When companies try to change the intent of minimum wage as being for teens & trainee's into 1 million+ full time jobs the wage needs to change. Minimum wage should be at a minimum level for working adults & leave the $7.25 for those it was intended.
Employers want someone who can do the job, with or without an education. Instead of wasting your life in school running up student loan debt, get an entry level position somewhere and get experience.
But they use the education/degree requirement to screen out 75% of the resumes they receive.
My daughter wanted to go to colleg. because she is maildly retarded, they made her enter a 2 year certificate program, telling her that she could make $35000.00 a year as a medical office assistant upon completion. she had a 4.0. When she graduated, there was ONE add for a medical offic assistant - requiring 2 years experience - and it paid $400.00 a week!! That's a far cry from the $3500.00 the college shows in their catalogue! So she went to college, graduated last sumer, but because she has medical issues, she can't find a job. but it is just as well. There isn't a job out there anywhere that will pay her enough to cover her medical costs - $1000.00 a month in prescriptions, 3 MRI's a year and 11 specialist visits a year - or have insurance that will take her on and immediately start paying benefits. She would have to have an entry position paying over $100,000 a year to cover her bills after taxes!! It just ain't happening!!
I totallly agree with you. I spent over 20 years in the military as a supply/admin sergeant. I cannot get the same type of job in the civilian world because I don't have a college degree.
Lol, it does make you wonder Lead. Ok, I pay $430 a month for a two bedroom apartment that includes the usual appliances. I'm in a nice, very nice apartment complex with well-maintained grounds and good looking buildings, plenty of parking. I have large open spaces along a creek where I can walk my three little dogs. There's a WalMart within three miles and a good library in town. The town is about 45 miles South of Nashville, TN and about three miles from I-65. I live in Pulaski, TN and it's not a big city bedroom town, the majority of people are mixed, White and Black and we all get along just fine. The apartment complex, Hidden Valley Apartments, is also well integrated. The complex is not in a run-down undesirable part of town. Someone online told me once that he would never live anyplace but in NYC, he has access to world class theatre. Lol, cool, it comes at a price. I was born and reared in Chicago, my sister lives in a southern suburb there and she's seen my apartment and the town. Lol, the same size apartment would rent for well over $800 a month there. I know because before I left that area I was renting a two-bedroom in a northwest suburb, Rolling Meadows, for $650 a month, and that was in 1974 when the wife and I left. So, Lead, it's the individuals choice to live where he wants to live, and pay for the priviledge.
I don't have a college education, hell, it took me five years to get through four years of high school in the Chicago public school system. I did finally graduate in 1960. I have never worked for the minimum wage that you say a high school education is only good for. When I was laid off in 2002 I wasn't making great money, but I was making a little over $14 an hour, with only a high school education. Yeah well, lol, you did ask where we all lived.
My wife and i bought our first house making minimum wage. We lived on bare essentials, worked 60 to 80 hours a week and did not have all the luxuries that the poor enjoy and expect. It can be done if you have the desire and fortitude to do so.
The problem is we have at least a generation of "meme's" that don't believe in starting at the bottom. They don't want to work, but want the goodies. Thank goodness they have President Stinky (bo) who believes the same as they do, and is happy to redistribute from those who DO to those who WON'T.
Check every president and they always give away big bucks. Except to our people.But what aggravates me more is when a president started endless wars which cost trillions, gave tax cuts when we needed the money, at least we did eventually, and oversaw a financial and housing mess. Then that party won't acknowledge it and think, if we didn't have only those 3 messes we would be doing great. Wouldn't we? But what republican is willing to stand up and say so. They would rather whine about some dependent person. If Obama is a socialist what does that make President Bush?
Ask your great "leader" then, why it's perfectly OK to give $250 million to the muslim brotherhood - etc, etc?? One pres goes into wars and the other gives it to people who hate us. Great way to spend our money. Maybe we should look at overall Congressional Reform? Why are we "represented" by lawyers and unions and big corporations??? We pay big bucks to people in our own govt who do not care about us -- they care about their agendas. And that includes both sides.
Every Republican I've talked to acknowledges that Bush was a disaster. However, Obama has essentially continued Bush's disasterous policies and made them worse. Every time Republicans oppose Obama they are acknowledging their mistakes and trying to remedy them.
I don't know if you remember this or not but we were in a recession when Bush came into office. 9-11 further weakened the economy. If it weren't for the tax cuts we would have seen a deeper and longer recession in 2000 than the one we saw.
The housing mess was decades in the making and Bush tried to get Congress to deal with the problems but Congressional Democrats, led by Barney Frank, blocked every attempted reform.
No, SS would still be running out of money, Medicare and Medicaid would still be running out of money, college would still be prohibitively expensive, and our tax system would still be punishing productivity. Our problems go way beyond the mistakes Bush made while he was president.
Your only partly right. Bush was a disaster only because he wasn't a real conservative. He was better than anyone else running at the time. Al Gore would have spent money faster than Obama had he won. Could you imagine Al handling 911. Secondly the biggest thing republicans failed to see was the change in direction of the media and the democrats handling the war. Vietnam ring a bell. The democrats demanded the rules of engagement be changed to the point winning was almost impossible. Remember John Kerry, "I voted for the war before I voted against it". Cant have it both ways unless your a democrat. The Bush years in my opinion were a failure because he didn't fight for conservationism but mediocrity.
Perhaps, you missed the blank and undecisive stare 'on Bush's face when he got the news.
Jex, you are a fukkking idiot
Where's your house, Iz? Some bum@!$%# little town no one wants to live in so the houses sell for less than a mid-sized car. Whoo hoo. I hold title on a house I bought for $47.5k in the high desert above Palm Springs. A haven for section 8 and the SS elderly. The buyers monthly mortgage payment is $185 less than my monthly car payment. You can barely rent a room in a decent house in a decent city on minimum wage. BTW, congrates on the house.
What good will it do to raise the minimum wage for a guy working 8 hours a week? And the woman getting payday advances will never get ahead.
True. The people on welfare and collecting benefits are still buying $200 Nike shoes. They have Iphones and Galaxies with unlimited data plans. Exactly how poor are they when their kids own tablets and get free health insurance, eat all their meals on the taxpayers' dime at school and go to Disneyland? Free internet and big screens. I haven't seen anyone yet that hasn't got all those things that I do not have, and there's a law that says you can't be turned down for a loan because your income is all from Public Assistance. Did you all know that? You qualify for buying a house even though you never had a job and don't earn a penny of the income you get, and all your money comes from all your illigitimate kids, and you claiming you don't know who the father is. even though he probably lives with you. Most of you people save and struggle for your down payment and the welfare mother down the street gets to buy a house before you do because her income is stable and guaranteed. Perfect. What a great country we live in.
Right Izoo, it can be done. I posted earlier about being told by guys in a shop where I worked that I wasn't making more because I wasn't worth more. Well, after working for peanuts part-time I learned more. Friends of mine said; "No American should have to do that!" Maybe that's part of the problem, an attitude of "I work hard and pay taxes, I DESERVE." I learned early on that I could only get what I could earn, nobody is "Deserving" of a damn thing. So then, what about folks on welfare, are they deserving? Absolutely not, welfare is provided by Americans who want to help the unemployed, the unfortunates, and it's their choice to help and that's why welfare exists and is tax supported, because most people want to help and doing it with taxes spreads the cost around, even to those who don't want to help. That brings up another issue; Should people be forced, by taxation, to be charitable, to be socially sensitive? Back in the 1960's I embraced "Question everything." I did, I asked why I was forced to pay taxes to support people who laughed in my face for doing it, and, demanded more. Lol, well, that wasn't quite what the socially sensitive had in mind when they trumpeted "Question everything."
Sandy, are your eyes brown? They would pretty much have to be being as full of *%&$ as you are.
Yes Shellie, you're right. They only get 250 hour for free. No unlimited plans for them!
You're so smart.....!