In America's most dangerous and poorest city, Camden, N.J., bullet holes are visible in a church's stained glass window, crosses commemorating the murdered line the outside of city hall and the police staff is so outnumbered and outgunned, drug deals occur in the open. Rock Center's Brian Williams visits Camden and talks to those fighting to turn around the forgotten city.
By Shoshana Guy, Producer, NBC News
CAMDEN, N.J. -- Inscribed on the walls of City Hall are the words of Walt Whitman, the great American poet who spent his final years in this city: “In a dream I saw a city invincible.”
But the decades since have not been kind to Camden. Today it is the poorest in the nation.
Directly in the shadow of the glittering skyline of Philadelphia, Camden has long suffered the indignities that poverty breeds. A drive through the streets of the 9-square mile city reveals a moonscape of crumbling infrastructure and abandoned homes, nearly 4,000 in all.
“I always think of Camden as the best visual aid in America to see what has gone wrong and what is going wrong,” said Father Michael Doyle, who has been serving the city’s poor from his Sacred Heart Church for more than 40 years.
Camden was once a manufacturing boomtown, home to RCA Victor, Campbell’s Soup and the biggest shipbuilding company in the world. But once industrial jobs began drying up decades ago – as they did in so many other cities across the United States – many people left for greener pastures.
Then came a crushing blow: the race riots of 1969 and 1971, which left the city mortally wounded. In the decades that followed, civic corruption and mismanagement rendered Camden increasingly poor and violent. Three mayors have been indicted in the past few decades, adding to the sense of hopeless among residents.
In Camden, N.J., criminals and drug deals operate in the open, and the police department is understaffed. But some residents are working hard to get their city back on track. NBC's Brian Williams reports.
Last year was the bloodiest in Camden’s history; the city of just 77,000 had 67 homicides. On average someone was shot every 33 hours.
“It was a tough, tough year,” said Camden Police Chief Scott Thomson. “And for a city as hardened as Camden is and has become over time, it buckled the city to its knees.”
Distraught over the level of violence, the community erected crosses on the lawn of City Hall to try and draw attention to the crisis.
Thomson said crime rates have gone up because he has fewer cops. In early 2011, unable to fund its obligations, the city cut the police department in half, leaving roughly 200 officers to police one of the most violent cities in the country.
NBC News
Crosses on the lawn of City Hall mark lives lost to violence.
“It’s gotten to the point where even in our daytime hours in this city people are scared to leave their homes,” said Thomson. “And this is the United States of America. Children should not have to fear even sitting on their own front steps.”
There is movement to get more officers on the streets. In April of this year, a new county force will take over for the City Police Department, adding 200 officers to the ranks.
The decision to regionalize the force enraged the Camden Fraternal Order of Police, which has charged the city with union busting.
“The experienced officers are the best chance they have to provide safety to the public,” said FOP spokesperson Nancy Webster.
But Chief Thomson hopes more boots on the ground will help stabilize the city. “At no point in time can we ever quit,” he said. “Failure is not an option.”
Chrissy Rodriguez, who lives on one of the most violent streets in the city, worries about her two young boys constantly.
“My kids don't get to go outside. They don't get to play,” said Rodriguez. “And I'm not gonna let them ride a bike down the street … in the afternoon. People are getting shot.”
But it’s hard for people like Rodriguez to scrape together enough funds to leave. Roughly 30 to 40 percent of Camden’s citizens are out of work. Rodriguez has only been able to find a part-time job, which brings in about $700 a month.
About 42 percent of Camden’s population lives below the poverty line, with the average income hovering around $26,000 a year. That is in stark contrast to the rest of New Jersey, where the average household income is $71,000 a year — the third highest in the nation.
“America has decided to concentrate its poor,” said Father Doyle. “The wall around Camden is very high, it’s an economic wall. You can’t get over it.”
The Rev. Michael Doyle, who has been serving the city's poor from his Sacred Heart Church for more than 40 years, tells Brian Williams there is hope for the city of Camden.
The “walls” of Camden hold in a population that is 48 percent black and 47 percent Hispanic.
The city is trying to revitalize. Old buildings along the waterfront have been turned into luxury condos. Cooper Hospital and Rutgers University have created stability on handfuls of blocks. And recently Cooper opened a medical school. Still, the main industry remains the drug trade and it’s been so bad for so many years that the city’s tragedies often seem to go unnoticed.
Recently, a former citizen of the city paid for a billboard near the Camden exit off I-676 that read, “Say something nice about Camden.”
Camden’s got heart. And you’ll find that heart in community leaders like Tawanda Jones. Better known as Ms. Wawa, Jones is the leader of the dance troop the Camden Sophisticated Sisters Drill Team for school-age girls.
“There's a lotta people from Camden that are so gifted and so talented,” said Jones.
Jones has been volunteering her time for more than 25 years. She raises money to help the team travel, visits the children’s schools on her days off, and dedicates herself four nights a week, all year round to creating a safe space for children.
“We practice all year round cause there’s danger all year round,” said Jones.
For now, through the efforts of people like Jones, the City Invincible marches on.
“There's a spirit in poor people, resilience and a hope and a generosity,” said Father Doyle. “We might be invincible in that regard, that human beings do not give up.”
Camden's got heart. And you'll find that heart in community leaders like Tawanda Jones. Better known as Ms. Wawa, Jones is the leader of the dance troop the Camden Sophisticated Sisters Drill Team for school-age girls.
Related:
'By the grace of God': How workers survive on $7.25 per hour
Poverty in America: A problem hidden 'In Plain Sight'
Share your story with us at InPlainSight@nbcuni.com
This story was originally published on Thu Mar 7, 2013 5:03 PM EST
Leave a Comment:
I pray Obama watch!
To do what...get involved in an area that he couldn't even assist in while he lived in Chicago? Empty dreams from towards an empty shell filling promising of glory while none to be provided. Look to yourself, not someone else.
obviously you cant read or refused to see all the facts of this story the troubles with this town has been going on since the 1960's and what you need to say is i pray that congress see's this and wakes up and instead of sending 60 million dollars to rebels use that money for America
Praying will do no good. Obama could not give away enough billions to save Camden. Camden must save itself from the culture of evil. The devil do us harm.
@john: What do you suppose Congress should do? Are they some cavalry riding in to the aid of the pioneers hunkered down by the onslaught of american natives?? I hardly think so. Dumping our hard-earned money into yet another sinkhole solves no problem, but creates many more.
So is God abandon all this?
It's always the devil fault if something bad happen, but if God destroys a city, he/she still God.
Maybe there is no god or devil. Maybe heaven and hell do not exist. Maybe intelligent animals die and the lights of the human spark are off forever.
God? Devil? Obama? LOL! Maybe it's just the way these people are. That's right, I said it. Everybody has a choice of what to do with their life and some people choose this way of life no matter what part of the world they live in! Technology and standards of living may be increasing today but only for the rich apparently. Some communities choose to work hard some choose not to. Some make the surroundings very attractive some don't care. It's up to them, not the government, or the money, or the police.
The primary cause of Camden's problem, if people listened to videos, is that the poor population kept getting poorer and growing in size while the wealthy kept getting wealthier. This is the same scenario as the whole nation is beginning to experience. We could use this as a good Blue Print of what America in general will be from sea to shining sea if thing are not done to protect ALL AMERICANS not just the Wealthy. Obama has seen this and he is trying to correct the problem but the GOP wouild rather we all live like this except for their wealthy elite.
Decimus Mabus
you maybe right, the spark is off, people have given up on themselves and let others take care while we do nothing, God does exist but in the hearts and minds of the people whom what god, not in the hearts and minds of those who refused to do nothing. Corruption exists in the government from Washington on down. What have you done to change that, nothing would be my guess. The unionized police department of Camden does nothing but sit on the butts and wait for the check, is this what they are paid for??the few that are left have forced out those whom are laid off by not taking a cut in wages for not doing their job which I would bet is out of fear.
God does exist but not in the hearts of the the devil!!
The more things change, the more they stay the same. 50 years ago in America you didn't have a lot of violent crime. You did have poverty in every urban and rural area and small cities. Of course, African-Americans were the worst off. Back then though AA's didn't have many "civil rights". They were restrained in a Caste System. The Civil Rights movement and the spirit force led by Martin L. King Jr., changed a lot of that and this country changed:politically; and, became a "equal opportunity employer." But now, there are little jobs that offer "livable"wages. And unemloyment has been so high for so many years a generation of young black men have turned to the illegal distribution of drugs. This is a lucrative business that has brought on violence, gun play, murder and social alienation that has never been witness by the black community or America, for that matter. This is worse than those AL Capone days. This violence is intergrated throughout. This is bordering on patricide. Any kid trying to do good is vulenurable and easy targets for death. Gangs have proliferated. This is not only Camden, this is black America all across America. The good people of these communities do not know waht to do. It's to widespread. It's effecting the schools. No where is it safe.
Amazing that this city is just 1 hour and few minutes from Wall Street, the Financial Center of the world.
Wall Street Set For Best Two Years Ever, Thanks To Bailout
Huff Post Business
Two agonizing years for the U.S. economy have been some of the best years on record for Wall Street.
After first receiving billions in taxpayer aid, and now ultracheap funding from the Federal Reserve, Wall Street banks are on track to wrap up two of their best years ever.
According to an October estimate, Wall Street firms are set to pay out $144 billion in bonuses this year, to break a record for the second year in a row.
Sorry, I neeed to throw up.......
Our money is better sent to N Korea than it would be to a filthy hell hole like Camden. They should napalm Camdem before it drags Philly down.
A once proud City destroyed by decades of Democrat rule, union corruption, crooked Politicians, & drugs. 40% to 50% Unemployed leaving Camden county & N.J. residents to pay for this liberal icon of a city! The State of N.J. had control of Camden using State Police & State money. However, after running N.J. into the ground Gov. Corzine (D) returned control of Camden over to the Mayor (D) with $500,000,000 dollars. The Mayors first order of business was to hand out $75,000 dollar pay raises to political cronies! It's no different than any other big City in the U.S.A run by Liberal Democrats for decades...The answer is simple stop voting these same Liberal Dem. into office.....
This is a result of the greed that the one % has shared with us, coming to a neighborhood near you soon , what happens when someone wins all the money and properties in monopoly, just some are to blind to see it. There is more than enough to go around but people forget their role is to keep feeding the one % that is how the system is designed. And the one % does not share well.
Praying for Obama to help will not work. Elect better people who will work to fix the city instead of turning to Obama with their hand out claiming "it's not my fault".
lee-936758 Thanks you - seems you are the only on here that sees the problem. 50 years of Democratic feel good politics has helped create this. The unions drove everyone out except Campbells Soup - Now We the People pay Campbells Soup to stay there. Why should my tax money go to them??? I dont know - it certainly hasn't helped Camden.
If you want to see the true Camden, go there the night before Halloween (mischief night). Watch all the pretty fires that the residents light - THEN TELL ME IT's THE FAULT OF CONGRESS and BIG BUSINESS - I don't see any CEO's burning down houses in Camden.
Some of the comments above are pathetic.
They rebuilt New Orleans..Where are the celebrities, the governor must be a hack.
Nothing more needs to be said.
honestdebate, Go back to seep or some were like fox news where crap like you are spewing is listened to by other brain dead fox turds!
1wizaed, If you are still brain dead enough to think that some ones ethnicity makes them behave a certain way, Then you should really check yourself into some place to get the help you need!!!!!
Truth hurts doesn't it dmajesty. Camden is the result of a 1 party city, the only people that have stayed there are criminals. This is the nation the left is driving us towards, and you are a part of that.
Why don't you explain to us why cities where minorities are the majority are all in similar poverty ridden, crime ridden conditions. It isn't racism you twit, it is facts.
But great job blaming FOX because you don't like truth, you fool.
To be honest it can't be fixed, it is what it is, people there will not change its their way of life, I say leave them to their own choosing. Next case.
honestdebate, What Truth! Trying to blame this on any party is stupid! I have seen this play out time and time again! Stop trying to politicize something that has noting to do with politicise and everything to do with wide spread poverty! This has been happening to not only this city but the country for quite some time! And i guess you have never been to a triler park comunity hunh? Try going to the mid west and tell me about the meth trade! Poverty breed crime period! You are ony seeing what you want to see! But feel free to live in your dream world moron!!!
It is a lot easier to simply blame the guns for what is happening in Camden. Just make more laws against guns and gun owners and it will all be fixed... right?
Dmajesty, Just because you refuse to see the obvious and put the blame squarely where it belongs does not make it any less obvious. And by the way, I am Black. Not African American, BLACK. I was born in the U.S., not Africa. That has to be the stupidest term ever used and only helps to keep us divided as a nation and stigmatized. Not one person alive today was a slave. It is long past time to get over it, pull yourselves out of the gutter, and better your lives. As long as we continue to suck off the gov. teat we will continue being slaves, just to a different master now.
Now this would jut not be complete without a second amendment plug right??????
I think most people can recognize that the urban black community has a very serous and disproportionately large problem with violence. It's probably time we start having a real conversation about that and find meaningful ways of curbing it and while the rate of violence has been declining in the community for the last 20 years, there is still way to many people getting their lives cut short. Detroit, Washington DC, Chicago...etc, the violence in these cities unfortunately are largely a black problem. No one race is better than any other, but to continue to ignore the issues that are facing the black community, simply to avoid being called racist, is certainly not going to solve the problem.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/ucr-publications#Crime
The undeniable truth is that leftist policies breed poverty. When you tax the producers heavily and give it to the non-producers, the producers either choose to become non-producers or move away somewhere else.
The only equality leftist policies produce is equal poverty and equal misery.
You want to stop crime and gun violence? Stop electing corrupt leftist leaders who simply use government authority to take from people and then "buy" their power by distributing it the poor. You encourage jobs and prosperity by reducing government oppression of businesses and people, not increasing it.
1wizard, Your entire post tells me all i need to know about you. I will say nothing further , Full of assumptions and insults towards people of color sad....
Sam - I wonder what you would have done if you lived in a city with 40% unemployment, where all the jobs have disappeared.
A city without some income producing activity to sustain it, be it manufacturing, trade or banking, is just a desert.
It is easy to say leave, but without money or skills, where do you go?
Looks like everyone here can see the obvious truth except Dmajesty, so I will just assume majesty has to be right.
Dman - Camden is a river's crossing to Philly, so excuses just don't hold water.
Watch, Oh my god not the taxing the job creators crap again, Seriously! Let me give you a clue TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS DOES NOT WORK! How Manny times do we have to prove this!!!!
So Dmajesty, because I jumped off your reservation and broke the chains that binded me and don't subscribe to your group think mentality that you feel all people of "color" should think like you, I am somehow a racist. As long as you continue to be stuck in your PC world nothing will get better for anyone. And your post just proves why we can't have honest discusions about anything and the root causes of it. You immediately try to stop honest discussions about it by calling everyone a racist.
honestdebate, If you think this problem is because these people are a minorities and noting else, Then you are wrong and no amount of protesting will change that!!!
The Federal Government should rebuild its own cities before sending one dime of aid to rebuild infrastucture in foreign countries.
Twizard @1.19
Unfortunately, I have to agree. So much for political correctness, but after decades of poverty, violence, and crime rampant in cities / regions where "minorities" make up the majority, one could reason that tossing buckets of millions of dollars at these areas leads to further regression.
Is it that "minorities" are so emboldened by the welfare system that the thought of work and ingenuity / entrepreneurialism are now foreign concepts not worthy of consideration? I have seen many a North /West Philadelphia resident sit idle on porch step during weekday afternoons, smoking cigarettes and watching the trash blow around the sidewalks. Individuals drinking beverages, and tossing the empties on the ground, in a "natural" way. Folks casually walking behind buildings to urinate.
Sorry, but until folks realize that they have a responsibility towards their communities, and regain some semblance of self-respect, the urban communities of the USA will continue to regress into filthy, lawless habitats.
AND, I'm a progressive. BUT, I do believe we are spending way too much taxpayer capital in an attempt to buy folks out of poverty. It seems that THAT solution has but only created generations of dependancy and irresponsibility, and an overwhelming lack of self-respect.
Weapons not food, not homes, not shoes
Not need, just feed the war cannibal animal
I walk the corner to the rubble that used to be a library
Line up to the mind cemetary, now
What we don't know keeps the contracts alive an movin'
They don't gotta burn tha books they just remove 'em
While arms warehouses fill as quick as the cells
Rally round tha family, pocket full of shells
Time to throw out those UNION Contracts and start over.....
A city grows (improves) because it's people invest in it. It costs the people to invest in the area where they live. Growth only comes through production and the delivery of services to those who want them. The (town) I live is turning itself around from a diminishing town to an up and coming city; it cost the average homeowner in taxes, the well to do through risking investments, and politicians who know how to play "that game." Camden has been abondoned or forsaken for numerous reasons and their appears to be no one to help it, namely it's leadership AND it's residents.
Rev.Michael Doyle: blessings to you for your 40 years of ministry.
"50 years ago in America you didn't have a lot of violent crime.'
My -- what a rose colored view of the past you have. Actually -- the crime rate has been in decline for most of the last 15 years. We hear more about crime due mostly to the 24 hour news cycle.
1Wizard, Plese stop posting a response to me, You only make yourself sound dumber every time you do. Reservation Broke the chains? And the rest of your rant makes even less sense! Stop posting, You are stating to sound unhinged.
Dman, it is time we strip ourselves of our cloaks and look at the picture of truth. We have a problem, a societal problem. Money alone cannot fix this problem. The problem will begin to solve itself when the black community rejects the violent criminals, rejects the condition of women having babies without husbands and responsible fathers, understands that you are to respect people and life matters. In no other race do we have the problem that exist in many of our black communities. This is not racial, it is a fact. You want to call me a racist, then you continue to hide behind a wall.
I guess those race riots worked and the Blacks got what they wanted, control of the city.
This is what someone says when they know they are completely wrong, but their ideology won't allow them to admit it. I'm guessing 1wizard does nothing but watch FOX news all day long, this is obvious, because he sees that you are wrong.
Thank you for going out of your way to prove his point that having an honest conversation with you will be impossible. You are far too childish and indoctrinated in your liberal ideology.
"and their appears to be no one to help it,"
:-)
Dmajesty, sounds like you are the one becoming unhinged. Resorting to name calling and personal attacks because you lost the argument. Just can't believe a Black person could actually have their own opinion that is not in line with the Democratic talking points and would dare to voice them. I will keep responding as long as you do. There is an ignore button you can use in case you forgot.
DZ190,The fact that you think these problems are just in certain communities, i suggest you like others here take a real look around in our country. These problems are everywhere. Only the news makes you think it is only largely in some communities. I have lived in quite a few cities. Violet crime is everywhere! Stop fooling ourselves. I agree it is a problem in certain cities, And yes what you are saying is a racial thing. The problems in the so called black community go so far beyond race it is not even funny!
oh blow it out your... The Democrats, unions, or any other boogeyman you can come up with has little to do with it.
This city was ruined by one primary thing, that is manufacturing jobs leaving the area (expand this to our entire country, and you can see what's happening nationwide). This leaves an entire class of once-middle-class people falling further and further into poverty, which breeds desperation, which breeds crime, which breeds violence (you'll find this same cycle occurring in countless places dotting our countryside, Detroit is a good example).
Middle class people with a steady job, and an affordable mortgage payment, do not break into their neighbors house to steal their TV. Unbelievably, desperately poor people do! There is nothing more to it than that.
Keep allowing the rich guys who lie, cheat and steal to stay in business - no wall street bankers went to jail for crushing the economy. Keep allowing the kids in certain subcultures to reject the teachers attempts to educate them. Keep allowing them to blame somebody else except their Mom and non-existent daddy. Keep going to college and study golf, sports movement technology, art history, psychology, and politics. Keep cheating on tests and if you are caught, file a sex harassment claim against your teachers. And if you should ever get a paycheck or a gubmint benefit check, make sure you spend it on a Korean import car that you fill with chinese made products. Then when life turns tough cry on TV and let the gubmint know they need to do something. Get ready folks, there's going to be a lot more of this.
It seems that the places with the most problems,,, drugs, unemployment, violence are the same places where the people are the ones sitting on the couch, collecting "free stuff" from the government. If you moved half of the people to a place where there were jobs for them,,, well, they would sit on the couch and expect "free stuff" from the government. I have not mentioned race or political party, you can do that.
1wizard, Nice attempt at defection, won't work stop posting me. honestdebate, Where is you proof that i am wrong? Yeah thought so....
Lusitania,
They haven't rebuilt New Orleans. You ever even been there? Most of the residents that fled NO never came back. Houses boarded up everywhere. The place was a hole before Katrina and it still is after.
Dmajesty
agreed, its the same for every one. when we depend on bureaucracy (BIG GOV) to take care of our own personal responsibilities we are in for a hard life. We the people determine the laws, not political figure heads of any party, that is what needs to change.
ok heres the second amendment plug. anybody wana live there without a gun?
as well the Media spins the truth and sensationalizes all the wrong things. playing the public like a mass fool.
I've been poor enough to have lived out of a car for a while, yet I never thought that anyone owed me their TV.
When you have a whole political party telling people that they are victims and they deserve what their neighbors have earned, just because they breath oxygen (and have the right to vote, the real truth). You create a culture of people who will always live as vultures and will always be willing to take what others have.
What proof do I need? All you've done is whined and cried victim and racism. 1wizard has done the opposite, he has eloquently explained the problem, and all you did was whine back at him, while getting angry at him for not falling in line like blacks should do.
MNJL170, And i knew free stuff from the government would come into this too! How Manny fox news viewers are here any way???
Camden needs the worlds largest bulldozer and wrecking crane..
That's about the only thing anyone can do with it now.
Liberlas like you actually believe that you have won an argument when you attack FOX don't you? The truth is, it just shows how pathetic you really are.
And these locations also happen to be the poorest places as well. Poverty is the causation, "free stuff" is the correlation.
That might be true for a small minority of this population, but the vast majority would happily take good paying jobs in their area if they existed. It's absurd to believe otherwise.
This is a red herring argument (along with the "free stuff," "taker," arguments that have been brought up by rightwingers so frequently in the last few weeks).
First of all, there is NOT a political party telling people they are victims that deserve what their neighbor owns. That's just a Fox-speak soundbite of a straw man representation of what the Democratic Party argues for. It has no basis in reality.
Second, it's overwhelming POVERTY that creates a culture of people "living as vultures," not gestures and soundbites from a political party. Get freaking real.
It's hard to ignore the proverbial elephant in the room. Bill O'Reilly goes on a ridiculous, detached from reality rant about Obama voters wanting "free stuff" after the election (which was based on Romney's equally ridiculous, detached from reality rant about the "47%), and then it's all we see on the newsvine for months after that.
It's readily apparent that some folks do not, or will not, think for themselves and parrot their talking points. Hell, even you've been semi-guilty of it on this message board by blathering about "When you have a whole political party telling people that they are victims... blah blah blah."
Apparently you've never listened to any of Obama's speeches, or almost every democrats for that matter.
Do you not know the differnece between parroting and observation? Most people do. I'm glad you spend so much time watching FOX so you can attack it as a way of arguing, I however do not watch FOX or any of the useless biased media outlets. But apparently to people like you and majesty, FOX is evil and MSNBC is factual.
Because someone supports what you want to hear, does NOT make it fact.
Unless the children in these areas are taught to respect others, to understand right from wrong, to believe in themselves enough to create and reach their goals and ultimately to respect themselves enough to not give up, this situation will never change. Most people will claim that "I know so and so who grew up in a ghetto and made something of his life..". Well, so? Some people have very strong characters and they can get past all that. Some people can live in awesome homes and still come out twisted. People are explained by a bell curve, not a simple dichotomy of only "this" or "that" with no in between. We as humans have to be TAUGHT to have values. With no one doing that, these communities remained doomed.
I have listened to plenty. They do not say this. Your argument is a red herring.
Fair enough, but the talking points they disseminate become staples on the internet. The "free stuff" talking point (which has no basis in reality) is basically a Bill O'Reilly comment, but gets used by half the people on this vine.
I never insinuated as such. MSNBC gets a lot wrong too, but they don't strike me as an arm of the DNC (like Fox is an arm of the RNC). I have seen plenty of times where MSNBC has harshly critiqued Obama, I have never seen Fox give him credit for anything. They're both biased (which is why I watch them both), but not all biases are created equal.
Despite maintaining some semblance of eloquence, you completely destroyed the integrity of any argument you have there. Please show evidence of any single time MSNBC has "harshly critiqued Obama", or for that matter, not praised him.
Have you ever thought that maybe FOX has such an issue with Obama because he really is not a leader in any way shape or form? Has he ever taken credit for anything negiative that ahs happened in this country or in his "home" state/city?
Oh and for the record, he does preach redistribution to the poor victims. But seeing as you don't notice MSNBC being part of Obama's campaign commity, I would not expect you to notice that. But if you want some real simple evidence of Democrats encouraging the victim card, go listen to anything from Deval Patrick.
Happens all the time. Joe Scarborough isn't exactly a liberal. Maddow was one of those harping on Obama's drone policy the most (in fact, NBC BROKE that story). They've criticized Obama over drone policy, healthcare (when that was being debated), giving away too much on tax cuts, not punishing large banks enough, and a whole host of other things. To suggest that MSNBC never criticizes President Obama is wrong.
No he does not. Again, that's a straw man representation of what is actually being said.
Drowning
Are you serious, I was watching MSNBC and on the bottom screen a message went across that said.."College graduates forced to get jobs to pay off student loans". If that isn't a comment from the left I don't know what is. I always thought when you graduated from college it's time to get a job, although I did work my 4 years through college. To trash one news organization and demonize another with your logic is completely off course.
He's actually used the word redistribution in speeches, what world are you living in?
These are the results when when we create a society who are dependent upon social programs to survive. Eventually the money runs out, or cost of living exceeds available funding, and the people turn to violence. Rioting will follow soon. The welfare state becomes a self perpetuating, unsustainable monster. This has been proven over and over again.
This is exactly what happens when the Democrats have unfettered power for 50 years! The reason for this disaster is that the government liberal never wants to fix a problem, they only want to make sure that THEY keep a job. Instead of investing into the infrastructure, making the city a better location for jobs, the dems instead threw money at every problem instead of taking this money and actually doing anything. This enabled several generation of government bureaucrats to live comfortably and the people of Camden were just pawns in someone's socialist "paradise"!
Is it just me, or have RWNJs taken over the Vine and NBC?
Don't you people have a place of your own to hang out and spout your mindless drivel?
I have to agree 100% with the poster who said we should rebuild our own damn cities before a single penny of US tax dollars leaves this country!
The same @!$%#s bitching and moaning about "takers" and "free stuff" don't seem to have much problem with corporate welfare or all the money that flows into the hands of foreign countries who hate our @!$%#ing guts!
On the other hand, unconstitutional gun laws are not the answer either. Education and PRODUCTIVE jobs are the answer!
Too bad liberal extremist have completely destroyed our educational curriculum while at the same time money grubbing conservatives have bled the educational budget dry and shipped all the real jobs to what used to be the third world. Now, they have all the productive jobs and their kids are getting the decent education and we are on our way down.
When there are no longer enough middle class consumers to support all these service jobs that the working poor are expected live off of, Camden will be America.
How about a simple solution, quit having children you can't afford. That would be a nice start. Breeding children is not a "right" it is a "responsibility". Where's Bill Cosby when you need him??
As usual, interesting but ignorant facts from "those people." Camden has been in decline since the late 50's and it's all President Obama's fault.
Some of "you" people are pathetic!!!
So "pro-life" is just for a certain race of people? Are you pro-life? I'm pro-choice.
race riots started it, and the liberals fed it with welfare.
honestdebate
Yet you are commenting on an nbcnews article on an NBCNEWS forum. Which now just makes you look foolish after that statement.
Let me makes some factual points and not go back and forth with ridiculous partisan political views.
1. An increase in poverty correlates to an increase in crime that's a fact.
2. these are some statistics i pulled you can easily find this yourself by googling.
Discrimination and marginalization are sometimes barriers for ethnic and racial minorities seeking to escape poverty (Corcoran & Nichols-Casebolt, 2004).
African American children are three times more likely to live in poverty than Caucasian children. American Indian/Alaska Native, Hispanic, Pacific Islander, and Native Hawaiian families are more likely than Caucasian and Asian families to live in poverty (Costello, Keeler, & Angold, 2001; National Center for Education Statistics, 2007).
Although the income of Asian American families is often markedly above other minorities, these families also often have four to five family members working (Le, 2008).
3. Education some more statistics for you.
We need to get over this hand out BS its not welfare and hand outs that are the issue it is the direction our society has started going and that is backwards.
Please don't start spouting off things like i am a liberal blah blah. Going against my gut feeling I voted for a Republican governor in my state and guess what now we have one of the highest childhood hunger rates in the US because of this whole hand out BS. Instead of figuring out ways to create jobs they are more worried about photo ids for voting and they want to get rid of single party voting. YES they spent the last several months on a bill to get rid of signal party voting who the hell cares if some one wants to make all votes to one party.
This whole attack on walfare and the middle class is just smoke and mirrors to alienate people from the truth.
1. Giving taxes breaks to the Rich does not work we know this because president bush did this for 8 years and it did not help the economy or create jobs.
2. Yes welfare is not the answer i believe we need to create technology classes in low income areas so people can learn computer skills and other skills to help them get back in the work force.
There is a lot we need to do but cutting "entitlements" is a bad start we need to first figure out how we can help people get off walfare once unemployment is down welfare will cut itself.
Living
I don't consider myself a Republican or a Democrat, I'm more of a federalist, In other words I believe in less Federal govt. and more State and Local. If your looking to who has bled the educational budget in local towns that would be a mixed answer, the unions, the fact that my county has 22 separate Board of educations, that is alot of people not teaching kids and making money from taxes. Heck just in my school district the Superintendent makes 225 K. just think of the amount with 22 superintendents taking money away from teachers and students. Their are a number of ways to correct this, but it's business as usual and with the amount of money coming in they better start doing something SOON.
Moshuluu, I gotta say...
You are a badass. Keep up the good work, handing out the bitchslap of reality!
I think the more important issue here is that we seriously need to get DMajesty a dictionary. You know this site has a built in spell check, right?
Do you even read the things you post before submitting?
I've tried to read through them, but find that your constant misuse of words and spelling errors speak volumes about the level of intelligence with which we are all dealing.
Perhaps you shouldn't waste your time on these boards and can better yourself with one of those crazy edjuh-macations (that's supposed to be educations, but I figured I should speak in terms you would understand). Let's be honest though, you're probably just waiting for them to start handing out college degrees along with welfare checks.
95% black and hispanic...............hummmm, what could the problem be???
Lamdaguy,
Above you said Barack has seen the problem and is trying to fix it... I call BS on that... He is trying to push us into Socialism... Have you not been listening to him? Example; Money stacked as high as the Empire State Building (rich people), Money stacked 5 stories high (moderate income), Money stacked 2 stories high (poor people)... Now do what Barack wants, is to start taking the Rich money and giving to the moderate and poor, slowly over several years until stacks are all even... Now where do you take money from to give to the people who still won't work?!?!? Everyone now depends on Government for virtually Every Thing now, this is Socialism... If you have watched History happen or listened to History in School, We all know Socialism does Not Work...
I live on the edges of a poor neighborhood in Philly. It's what me and my wife can afford, despite earning a good bit above the median income. Taking public transport every day, and living close to these people who "just sit on their asses and do nothing all day", I can tell you that it is sometimes true, but not always. I see people from these neighborhoods on the bus going to and from work. I see them working in the stores around me.
You people really don't know what you're talking about.
If you want to know why poor areas tend to be black, just go back 50-100 years. They were forced to be poor! Poverty is not easy to break out of. If you grow up poor you are more likely to grow up with bad role models and with bad habits. It's all well and good to say that "you have to be the change", but it is NOT that easy. And, year upon year, more and more people are falling into poverty, which makes the competition to 'get out' of it harder and harder. Once the middle class disappears (which is slowly happening), expect the s#%t to really hit the fan.
Poverty is the problem, not colour.
MSNBC falls to the left of Obama, IMO. They've consistently criticized him for "not doing enough" for the causes they are concerned about. Rachel Maddow has been on the case of drones and the fact that we are at war with an ideology and not a typical war against a country and its implications for months and months now. Long before I can recall the right wing getting all bothered about it. I know that despite only watching her sporadically.
Harkstar, you should have opened with that, it would have saved time from reading any of your other cut and paste crap. If you believe there should be a "party lever" then you are a fool who believes that you should not be informed before you vote, just brainwashed.
BTW, with all your cut and pasting, all you proved was that being a minority is not the issue, because Asians apparently spit on your victim card driven minority theories. They succeed because they want to, because they do not want to be dependent on government, they do not feel entitled and they want to contribute.
The point many have made is that blacks and latinos would rather be victims and get freebies, why don't Asians do the same if being a minority in the white man's world is the problem?
So weren't everyone that immigrated here 50-100 years ago. There was not one group of people who immigrated who didn't receive some form of bigotry against them. Yet they all seem to have assimilated, which is the big issue.
@cburroughs
Newsflash... you already have (and have had for decades, century's even) elements of socialism. It's not as dirty a thing as you think. It doesn't mean everyone has to earn the same. Look up a 'mixed economy'. It's how most western, developed nations have worked for, again, decades and even century's.
Obama hasn't said (or wants) any of the things you are talking about. There is a vast difference between believing rich people are getting richer and richer while poor people get poorer, that being a bad thing and needing some equalization, and wanting communism, which is what you're suggesting. (Note, communism doesn't = socialism.) I think your problem is you don't actually listen to what Obama says and come to your own conclusions, you've let other people make those conclusions and are parroting them.
By the way, there is a video that has been knocking around that actually uses those 'stacks' to represent where the wealth in the US is. Watch it and you might see why it is a problem that needs something doing to 'solve'.
To the guy who said to napalm Camden before it brings Philly down. It's a little too late for that. The kids at Temple are continually harrassed, assaulted, beaten, robbed, raped, shot; a 12 y/o white kid from Darby Township was beaten and died later from two black bullies. That is a fact that the no-brain stream media leaves out. Two "yoofs" attacked him when he was walking home. They were in the same class. The only difference is they were 15 or 16. Well, they liked 6th grade so much they decided to take it 3 times over. They'll be back out on the street ready to terrorize again before the reaper will catch up to them.
Camden, Detroit, Flint, St. Louis, Oakland, Little Rock and the list goes on.
All these cities share a common thread. Of course the cause is never admitted. It’s suggested, but never really exposed for the cancer it really is. The usual cure for this cancer is all kinds of tonics, home remedies, various levels of social engineering and other “feel good” solutions.
You may as well just brush your teeth to try and cure this cancer.
This cancer is so obvious it hurts. The problem is, it’s embarrassing to expose it. Embarrassing for each and every American. Embarrassing for our “leaders”. Embarrassing for the greatest society in history.
More importantly, identifying this cancer is very easy, fixing it is the most difficult thing we as a nation have faced for nearly 35 years. Those afflicted with this cancer won’t admit it because, unfortunately, they don’t even know they have the disease. Those that don’t have the disease have tried, and have failed miserably. Until we are ready to admit the problem exists, make those with the disease admit they have it, the cancer will metastasize until it fully consumes our great nation.
We have to finally not only admit it, we have to say it out loud to ourselves and everyone around afflicted, because even those without the disease are being affected by it. This is very difficult because it grabs at the most important emotion every human possesses, pride. When someone’s pride is affected, especially when it is challenged, the natural response is to not address it. We can all feel when it happens to us and we can see how it affects others. So, what is this cancer eating away at our families, communities, cities and nation?
Shhhhh, don’t say it too loud, it really is embarrassing, it’s actually criminal.
America is illiterate.
More accurately, America is stupid.
There, I said it.
Yes, I know it’s shocking. It’s insulting. It’s politically incorrect. It’s not to be said out loud.
TOO FU**ING BAD!!!!!!
It’s the truth, and as is the case every time, the truth hurts. It hurts because it’s an admonition that our great nation is a failure. Yes, a failure of epic proportions. Admitting it involves every one of us one way or another, either directly or indirectly.
Every one of our major cities is a shining example of the cancer called illiteracy. This is no longer acceptable. We can no longer cower from it and deny its existence. Doing so just allows it to spread more and more.
Yes, it’s difficult to admit it, but it’s even more difficult to tell those most afflicted they are illiterate. The natural response is denial. No one wants to tell someone they are illiterate, let alone admit it. Tell someone they are illiterate and their response is defensive. Tell someone they are stupid, especially in these communities and you may get your ass kicked, or worse. No one wants to admit it, let alone be told they aren’t smart. The biggest problem is that this creates the Dunning-Kruger Effect. This means that those who are illiterate don’t know they are illiterate and have a distorted view of their resultant illiteracy, ignorance and stupidity. They think they are smart but they're not.
Yes, I know stupid is an unacceptable term, but the reason the problem has gotten to this point is because we don’t want to be honest. Political correctness is the biggest problem we have allowed to consume our nation. Instead of addressing this massive problem, and many others, we avoid it so we don’t hurt someone’s feelings. We don’t wasn’t to offend anyone, but we allow them to go through life illiterate. Only in the convoluted mind of the most ardent political correctness advocate can this make any sense.
Until we abandon this irrational behavior, illiteracy will continue. Sometimes being blunt is the only way to address a real problem. It’s time to be blunt America.
We can have as many community organizations as we want. We can have as many dance troupes in the inner city as we want. We can have as many reverend Doyle’s as we want. None of it will make a difference until we identify, admit and fix the problem.
The world has changed in the past 50 years. There are over 7 billion people on our planet. Competition for jobs and an acceptable standard of living will be challenged more and more. The beauty is that we still need all levels of trade and professions. But they all require basic skills and literacy.
We keep complaining about not having a “living wage”, but many aren’t worth a living wage. What motivation will anyone have, if we just give them more money without an increased value, to achieve more? If someone can only read at an 8th grade level, as most Americans do, how much are they worth? How about if they only read at a 4th grade level?
We have been throwing good money after bad to fix our “social wars” on crime, drugs, poverty and illiteracy and none of them have dramatically improved. Money is not the problem, nor is it the solution. Until we are honest and admit the problem exists and say it publically, nothing will change. It will only get worse.
Last year I was at a school board meeting in Detroit. There was a mother with her 13 year old daughter sitting next to me. When she addressed the board, she was in tears. Her 8th grade educated daughter spelled girl, G-U-R-L. More shockingly it wasn’t marked as incorrect, on a paper she handed in, by the teacher.
Many Americans are in the second to third generation of illiteracy. This means the parents are as illiterate as their children. This is a recipe for disaster. The likelihood that these children will be capable of succeeding is very poor.
Until we admit that our government run public education system is an abysmal failure Camden will only get worse. Here in Detroit we have rampant waste, fraud, abuse and corruption for decades. We have a city council that is best described as dysfunctional if not criminal. Our education statistics are a public embarrassment. None of the children has a future other than crime, drugs and poverty.
The link of education to these social problems is so obvious it hurts, yet we allow it to continue. Our governments—state, local and federal—are complicit to these problems. Until we are open and honest about illiteracy Camden, Detroit and other American cities will continue to be statistics rather than solutions.
This cancer will not only affect the afflicted, it will continue to spread until it cannot be cured. We are frighteningly close to that point.
It’s time to be open, honest and solve this problem once and for all.
Rob80,
No you have not been listening to him, and I did not say anything about Communism did I... His Redistribute the Wealth Plan, and everyother word out of his mouth about the rich is usually about getting into their pockets... Also, Believe me I know the difference between Communism and Socialism, and brother he is doing a good job of turning this Country toward Socialism... It is your right to believe the BS he and his administration puts out, me I do not have too...
And another little tidbit you may be interested in, is the Rich pay 80% of the Taxes in this Country... You may look that up anywhere on the net... Even Government Stats tell the same thing...
Well said, Jim Spence.
It's not about anybody being bigoted. It's about poverty being entrenched in their culture. If you can't see a difference between a community having been in enforced poverty for that long and people moving here much more recently then it's pointless having the discussion with you.
Yes, asians often move over here and do well, even if their parents live in poverty to start with. But their parents come here believing the poverty they are in will be temporary. They haven't been stuck in it (not here) for generations. They (the parents) are there children's role models. It is a very different situation.
And they don't totally assimilate either. What they tend to do is to keep their community somewhat together, even isolated, over here, which means that they don't pick up the bad behaviours/culture from the other people around them so much.
honestdebate
So your saying with everything else that is going wrong in this country our Representative should worry about a bill that wont allow people to just click on the party they want to vote for you really think at the polling station this would be anything but inconvenient? When some one is at the polls they will vote for who they are going to vote for anyway regardless of how many ticks they will have to do.
Please stop using assumption as fact makes you look even more foolish then your last post about fox and msnbc which btw is nbcnews now.
Wait you got all that from my statement about a bill for single party voting? Please keep making things up in your head to push your agenda and your opinion .
Again you look at facts and still deny the truth. You are in denial and your statements are prejudice. And spare me the "oh you are calling me prejudice because you don't agree with my views blah blah crap" I am getting tired of the recent rise in prejudice and racial comments that people try to pass off as facts and non racists or non prejudice. The veil of internet anonymity has created a section of society that shows its true colors on these forums.
And to answer your question
Asians don't have the same level of discrimination as blacks and Hispanics. But please ignore the facts and make up your own thoughts and ASSumptions.
...I guess you must mean that you sincerely wish Mr. Obama will buy you a new watch
Obama didn't do anything to Camden that it wasn't doing to itself. I remember just about every time my friends and I decided to go into Philly, from around Woodbridge, we would drive through Camden, and every time we drove through Camden, we could SMELL the crack being smoked.
Ah, it's Kennedy's fault.
MontereyJim 1.12
Ebonics.
I didn't say you did. What you did do was equate what you think he wants with socialism, and said he wouldn't be happy until everyone earns the exact same, which is communism.
Apparently not.
Once again, the country has had elements of socialism for decades and even century's. Please look up what a 'mixed economy' is.
You don't have to. But don't expect me to be quiet when you're talking BS.
Of course I believe that stat. The top 10% hold 80% of the wealth. What a f'ing coincidence!
Do I want a small amount of people paying such a big share of the taxes? No. Can I understand why they do? Yes. Do I want more people earning more so there isn't such a disparity? Yes. the question is, do you? Or would you prefer to bitch about it while wanting to continue the culture that is the reason for it?
Camden and Philly - two cities voting blue for decades (Dana Redd is the current Democrat in charge) - and with a history of political corruption. I wonder why there are generations on welfare? (That was sarcasm for those who could not detect it.)
Change your motto. Stop dreaming and make something happen.
Well, no great mystery here. This is what happens when you-know-who moves into town.
You can't name a place in the entire country where "they" make up the majority of the local demographic and it isn't an absolute cesspool of crime.
The unfortunate thing is that this has been bred into them so deeply thanks to the liberal entitlement mentality, that nothing is EVER going to change it.
Time for some government NBC experiments in a few select cities.
Gil Hicks, Calling attention to obvious errors does not make you sound smart. It makes you sound petty and dumb. Got anything important to say about my post fine, i will respond if not keep moving...
Yet another city with a firmly entrenched Democrat machine in City Hall fails miserably....what a surprise! Don't believe me???....see Detroit, St Louis, Cleveland, Philadelphia, Chicago, New Orleans, ..........and many more!
^this is correct.
I wish people would stop making this about politics, it has NOTHING to do with politics.
This is about ECONOMICS, not politics.
Harkstar, more proof that you prefer excuses over facts. Try telling Asians they were not discriminated against, they just don't play the victim, they also are not encouraged to play the victim by their so-called leaders. Blacks and Latinos remain more discriminated against at this point, because they create gang-ridden, drug infested wastelands like Camden. If you want people to not discriminate against you, change who you are, stop giving them reason. As Asians have.
And your belief that giving people a master lever is not bad for democracy is complete idoicy.
People like you just keep attacking the person speaking the truth because you are obviously to blind or stupid to believe it. Just keep your eyes closed to the real problems in the name of being PC, that will certainly remedy everything. Some of us choose not to live with blinders on.
The economic problems are a symptom of the politics.
It has everything to do with politics, Drowning. Economics is simply a by-product of that.
Camden and Detroit running neck and neck.
It is gonna get interesting to find out which one folds first.
Yep, it is ALL about POLITICS:
I smell BS. "They were forced to be poor!" Really? How exactly were they "forced" to be poor? What prevented them from doing things like going to the library, staying in school, learning how to take care of themselves?
Bull@!$%#. Camden's demise was 40 years in the making and has far more to do with the exodus of manufacturing jobs and middle-class supporting jobs than it does with the politics.
The connection between poverty and crime was proved years ago! Why some people cant see the reason for this is beyond me! DrowningGrover is 100% correct.....
Then every city in the country would be in the same situation. You are looking for excuses to excuse failed political policy, that is not gonna to help anything, and yes, Camden is a result of failed Democrat policies, we are seeing it all over the country.
Camden is a 1 party town, that will always fail. For some reason too many people desire 1 party systems, yet they always fail. Harkstar seems to love the 1 party systems since he is advocating for master levers which is the tool to maintain a 1 party system.
Most white people will not know, or admit to the causes of poverty, ghettos, slums, crimes, unemployment, and violence. But I'll drop some TRUTH on you. The main cause of the above stated conditions is, and always has been, WHITE SUPREMACY!! Hundreds, upon hundreds of years of OPPRESSION, SEGREGATION, DISCRIMINATION, POOR HOUSING, POOR SCHOOLS, and racist POLITICIANS, and POLICE. When Black people did have a thriving city that they built (Tulsa OK.) just one example, racist white mobs (KKK) came in and brunt it to the ground. After they robbed, and looted all the property of value. The Civil Rights movement was lees then 100 years ago, and the effects of a total system of white supremacy are still is mostly still in place, and still being felt.
Ghettos, and slums are not an accident, they were built on purpose to contain groups of people, that the mainstream (white) society did not want to deal with. To this day, a wealthy Black family will still have a hard time moving into an affluent white gated community. You can blame people of color all you want, but it's racist white people, and white supremacy that has laid the foundation for the inner city Holocausts we witness today. May GOD help us all.
Dude, newsflash, there are literally 100's of cities just like Camden all across the country. Some are Democratic, some are Republican. Some are in Blue States, some are in Red States.
We've been shipping jobs overseas and doing away with our manufacturing base for DECADES. Both parties have participated in it, and both parties have profited from it. To try and make the plight of 100's of once formally prosperous towns around this nation into a D vs. R (home team vs. away team) argument is laughably absurd on its face.
DrowningGrover, Amen!
Mackman - perfect example of holding on to the victim card. How long will it be till you can come up with another excuse? It's like the president and his minions still blaming Bush for everything but never blaming himself for anything.
Give me a list and I bet I can break down why in 20minutes or less, and I'll bet the reasons are all relatively similar. 1 party systems and, high unedcated minority populations with a high crime rate being the top 2 reasons.
We seem to see it happening much more in the blue states who saturate their public unions and tax the hell out of their businesses, to pay for the unions, until the business leaves.
But it is still ALWAYS politics. As I said, economics is just a sympton.
You guys just keep making the excuse that blacks are forced into poverty, well take a look at Germany, I don't see them crying anymore.
I tried to attempt to leave out the public union scamming the taxpayers as a large part of the problems, but here is something fun for you to see how politics created the problem.
But I guess you're right, politics has nothing to do with it.
honestdebate,
It is not just democrat dominated cities and towns that are experiencing this level of poverty, unemployment and crime........All across the south, especially in 'right to work' states, many cities and towns dominated and governed by republicans are going through the same kind of difficult times. It is not a party problem, but a cultural problem, the us against them attitude that is festering in America
You give yourself too much credit. Economists with PhD's couldn't break down the list of dying cities in months, let alone 20 minutes.
And it's impossible to give a complete list, and the reason for their demise is independent to each city. We could start with Camden, but Pittsburgh (and Bethlehem) suffered the loss of the steel industry. Detroit lost the Car industry. There are poor rural towns that are home to the dying family farmer (do you think THESE people are "liberal"), killed off by Monsanto. Las Vegas got crushed by the housing boom/bust. Bakersfield and Fresno are just @!$%#holes (again, hardly a bastion of liberalism). There are poor towns all across the South, in states like Alabama and Mississippi, and yes, some of the inhabitants of these near-ghost towns are white (do you doubt the existence of the poor rural or trailerpark white family on welfare? Tough to do, considering they encompass the majority of welfare recipients).
It's concentrated in "blue states" cause blue states are where the major populations centers are (because that's where the jobs used to be), and also, not coincidentally, where the largest share of manufacturing jobs have been shuttered.
No. Economics is the cause, politics is the distraction.
You keep boiling everything down to two thoughts: "Democrats BAD," and "black people BAD," without ever giving anything nuanced thought.
You're missing the bigger picture, the picture that is far more damning for our nation as a whole. But hey, at least you're scoring cheap political points, am i right?!?
since when is anyone so "desperate" that they would risk a confrontation w/the police or homeowner and possible injury or death (either for themselves or the person who was being victimized) over something like a TV?
sorry, but no...during the Great Depression people were desperate - even more so than now and you didn't see the animalistic, predatory violent behavior that takes place in the inner cities today
Democrats are for the most part bad, where have I ever said blacks are? Good try making that up.
I've clearly stated the problem with blacks is that they have been brainwashed, by Democrats, into thinking they deserve freebies and are victims of existence. Clearly there are many blacks that find this despicable and have decided not to be a statistic and have bettered themselves. But I guess they were just lucky right? The lefts idea of the results of hard work 'luck'.
Ellis -
The southern cities you refer to have been in poverty since the civil war. I'm willing to bet they are, as i stated, 1 party systems. But it is democrat controlled cities that had been booming cities until the politicians handed the cities to the public unions and wlefare addicts to buy votes at the expense of taxpayers. The businesses move out of states that think of them as a revenue source to pay for bloated pensions.
@honestdebate; What I sae ae no exuses, there facts. Dispute the effects of white supremacy all you want, but they exist. I'm not a victim, I'am a suvivior!! I thrive inspite evil I have faced. All I'm saying is, that for some people trapped inner city ghettos, or slums, do not have the will power, strenth, or resourses, to rescue themsleves. In American people of color must slip through the cracks, AND MAKE IT!! You, my friend are either IGNOANT, or in DENILE. Don't deny the effect of EVIL on a group of people. Study up on it!!
Yea, that's what I said, making excuses. They choose the lives they live because they have been told they are not good enough to do better. I think that's lunacy, but it's what their leaders keep telling them, so I guess it's true.
As long as you have politicians willing to keep minorities in their voting blocks, you will have brainwashed people who believe the scum politicians and will make excuses for themselves.
If you want to blame the very, very, very minor amount of KKK activity on the prevalent crime in black communities, then there is no hope for you.
then the same can be said of Republicans, it's all just opinion.
quotes from your own posts:
to be fair, you didn't state this as explicitly as others have in this thread (for example, "Carryingconcealed" in #1.96).
The entitlement society. Everyone has their hand out. The blacks and the hispanics in Camden are just a microcosm of all the cities. Non-educated, don't work, bitch about anyone who has money, waiting for the 'government' to give them everything.
Guess what, welfare queens. Time to get an education and go to work. Government (thanks to Oblama and the libs) is out of money, and there is no more coming.
Before you say something even more naive, Grover, let me tell you as a former resident of a couple of these dying cities, that their politics has EVERYTHING to do with the problem...it is the main reason why companies have moved elsewhere. The main villain is prohibitively high taxes required to pay for failing school systems, overpaid city employees, and rampant corruption on the part of union and political officials. When taxes, crime, and local graft payments get too high, and the skilled workers flee to the suburbs, frustrated business owners head for a friendlier business environment
You mentioned me saying "dems are bad" I agreed. See what I say about repubs, I bet it will be the same, I'm not the partisan hack like most of you.
And you ignored what I said about explaining why where minorities are the majority are always the worst cities. That isn't attacking blacks, that is a fact. I could care less what color they are, if it were true about Irishmen, I'd say the same damn thing. I'm don't choose to be blind to the truth like you.
Spider -
Thanks for reiterating what I've tried to explain to him, but I see it is pointless. If this were an article about a red city, he would be all about blaming politics.
Moshuluu's quote "Some of "you" people are pathetic!!!
So "pro-life" is just for a certain race of people? Are you pro-life? I'm pro-choice"
I don't give a damn what you are. Do I think people should take responsibility for their children they bring into this world? damn right I do. Do I think many many people in Camden have kids for all the wrong reasons? damn right I do. Do I think people who are uneducated on welfare should add to the plight of poverty that they live in by having kids they can't afford? No I sure as hell don't. Do I think females having sex should be using birth control when they are young and unable to fulfill their responsibility to their kids? You damn right I do. Do I think there aren't enough abortions within unwed, uneducated mothers? You damn right I do. Do I think it's my business that some people choose to end their pregnancies? It's none of my business. But what IS my business is that uneducated females having babies they can't afford is a blueprint for disaster. Stick it with your sanctimonious trash Moshuluu. Stop making excuses for complete and utter failure. Poverty breeding poverty is an issue that hits my wallet lady, it is damn sure my business when I'm on the "paying side of things".
I've already stated (in #1.108) that both parties are to blame. I'm not here arguing one party is solely responsible, you are.
then don't say it as "when the minorities (e.g., blacks and hispanics) are the majority, bad things happen."
Say it as "when POOR people (of whatever color or ethnicity) are the majority bad things happen," which is far more true and steers entirely clear of the race debate altogether.
It's pointless cause it's for the most part wrong. Broad based macroeconomic conditions have a far greater effect on our crumbling economy nationwide than do localized politics.
probably not. There are 100's of suffering "red cities" out there, and I won't blame their local politics because I know the macroeconomic pressures the entire country is operating under today are the same there as they are in Camden.
---------------------
@ spider:
Regarding the part I bolded:
I don't care how much you union bust or cut taxes, you will NEVER, I repeat, NEVER compete with China, India, Malaysia, and the Philippines...
And I've spent my fair share of time in these dying cities as well, having grown up in the Philly and Allentown/Bethlehem area. I've seen the dying of a steel mill first hand, and have been to Camden many times (I've never lived there fortunately).
We are talking about a 100% democrat run city, so yes I will blame Democrats for their failure. I live in a 100% Democrat run, bankrupt (fiscally and morally) state, so yes I am willing to blame Democrats for the failures I see every day.
You are thinking like a small minded liberal who thinks there are only the mega-billion dollar businesses. Small businesses won't start-up or move out/close even faster when they are taxed to support the public employees bloat. That is a simple concept that only the extremely ignorant are willing to argue.
DrowningGrover
Grover, you’re wrong, but I’ll play.
If its about economics why do you Liberals/Progressives always blame Reagan or any other bogeyman you can come up with. You complain about all our jobs being outsourced and offshored but I NEVER hear you complain about the hundreds of thousands jobs created here by other countries offshoring their industries to our shore.
As much as you promote yourselves as being so “progressive” and so “forward” you dwell on how things were in the 50’s and 60’s. We had our 30 golden years after the devastation of 2 World Wars and the Great Depression. You seem to think that as the worlds population has more than doubled that everyone is going to just wait for us to get our nation in order.
Don’t hold your breath. As hard as it is for us to accept, the world is NOT worried about our problems, they have enough of their own. Not including our population there are over 6.7 BILLION people on this planet. They have every right and the same moral responsibility to provide for their citizens as we do. We couldn’t provide for the whole world if we tried anyway.
We can piss and moan all we want about how many jobs have been lost and who’s to blame, the reality is, most of them will never come back. Most of those jobs we don’t want back. Most of those jobs are menial, repetitive work that has either been lost to technology, automation or cheaper labor markets.
Despite how much you want us to be an isolationist economy it’s not going to happen. It’s irrational to even want it. Those 6.7 BILLION other people in the world can be looked at as competition or consumers, either way it benefits us.
Yes, we have economic problems, but they are a result of bad political policies.
Ridiculous trade agreements that are NOT free, at best they are managed. When NAFTA is 2,000 pages long with 900 of those pages tariffs, that’s NOT FREE TRADE! When the WTO manual is 29,000 pages long it’s no wonder we have a trade imbalance.
Our criminal progressive tax system consumes 6.1 billion hours of private sector time and $431 BILLION annually, which is equal to 30% of total taxes collected, to comply. Why? To make it fair? To redistribute wealth? It hasn’t worked for 100 years, yet we demand it be continued.
The Code of Federal Regulations is over 144,000 pages long and costs our economy over $1.75 TRILLION annually. We demand more regulations but we never enforce or punish the abusers harshly enough. We don’t need more regulations we need BETTER regulations!
Unions MUST become more industry supportive rather than adversarial or they will be gone in 10 years. It does neither the labor force nor the industries any good if the cost of productivity makes us uncompetitive. If unions want to be relevant again they must stop being a political arm and become a surrogate to commerce.
But like I said in my post above, regardless of any of these issues, if we don’t fix our criminal, incompetent, political education system, our economy will continue to stagnate and collapse. The world is becoming less and less dependent on us because we are making ourselves more and more insignificant. We have some of the best upper education in the world. Why do so many Asians come here to get educated and then go home to apply that knowledge? In the meantime, our kid’s graduate high-school reading at an 8th grade level and 20% of them can’t even read their diplomas. How are we going to compete in the global market if we graduate mediocrity?
We won’t.
Ever since we allowed our government to intrude so much in our economy and system of commerce we have seen our prosperity and standard of living decrease. It is NOT the government’s responsibility to create jobs, it can’t. Government must create the ability for jobs to be created by the private sector. It is our job to become educated and use that knowledge to create commerce.
We have spent TENS OF TRILLIONS of dollars on all our wars on crime, drugs, poverty and illiteracy. They are all FAILURES! Yet we keep pouring more and more money in them and expect that magically they will somehow work.
THEY HAVEN’T, AND THEY WON’T.
We have gone from an academic, creative thinking education method to the current workforce, or better known as outcome-based, education system. It’s not working.
Approximately 50 percent of the nation's unemployed youth age 16-21 are functionally illiterate, with virtually no prospects of obtaining good jobs.
More than three out of four of those on welfare, 85% of unwed mothers and 68% of those arrested are illiterate. About three in five of America's prison inmates are illiterate.
Nearly HALF of America's adults are poor readers, or "functionally illiterate." They can't carry out simple tasks like balancing check books, reading drug labels or writing essays for a job.
To participate fully in society and the workplace in 2020, citizens will need powerful literacy abilities that until now have been achieved by only a small percentage of the population.
These statistics should outrage us. There is no way we are going to be competitive intellectually or economically with this education system.
We preoccupy ourselves with contraceptives, equal wages, marriage equality, gun control and abortions while our children, the future of our nation, rot and murder each other on the streets of our cities because they will never even be trainable for a menial job.
You can blame all this on the economy if you want, the truth of the matter is it is purely political. If you want the government, and its inherent convoluted politics, to run our education system it is purely political.
The biggest shame is, we allow it.
/sigh
{edited: for the record, this was not directed at post #1.125}
LOL, that really is such a true statement. When it suits the left, always revert to the mid-century.
Lazy = poor. Poor = liberal vote. Liberal vote = bankruptcy
Liberalism needs a host...Once the host is dead, the parasite dies.
honestdebate
i have yet to see you post any facts just assumptions and opinions that make no sense at all. All your post are emotional responses to a segment of society that you obviously have issues with. But keep being Nieve to the truth to push your own prejudice views. You keep saying left this and left that blah blah blah but you never post any actually facts if you hate leftist views so much why are you on this forum trolling?
You did not flat out say blacks are bad but you are implying it in this statement.
I have an idea. Get Al Gore in there to hustle up some publicity that global warming harms poor people much more than the average population. Therefore, big oil has directly harmed poor people unfairly, and a new host is born!
Yes, Kornfed,
eventually, Democrats will run out of other people's money to spend.
Once a new host is established, opportunistic organisms will move in to take advantage of the bi-products of the parasites, therefore creating even more hosts! Perhaps a sustained eco system can emerge...
Washington DC is in the same level of corruption, one party rule, Democrat party, where there is no honest people among their Council Members, from a drug addict , Marion Barry to the actual Mayor Vincent Gray. The only reason this city is not going to hell is because the Capital of the Nation and Federal Government funnel millions of dollars even so the level of violence is one of the highest in the nation , specially in the south east of DC..
Hkstar, thanks for another useless post where you attack me because you have no true argument, just keep proving me right.
Sorry if the truth doesn't fit your indoctrinated model of the world, there is a reason for the phrase "the truth hurts"
honestdebate
LOL
seriously your accusing me of no true argument you have not responded to any of the facts or comments i presented in my previous posts with facts just incompetent comment. But i dont expect a non judgmental factional non partisan response. Happy trolling.
If you hate these articles and nbcnews so much why are you even on this forum? I am honestly curious.
I like laughing at Haks like you who think you win arguments by attacking FOX news.
dishonestdebate
Where did i attack fox news? wow reading comprehension must be another issue you have that explains a lot though. But please refer to my post where i attack fox news?
You also are avoiding my previous question
If you hate these articles and nbcnews so much why are you even on this forum? I am honestly curious.
Oh rihgt, you defended someone else using FOX as an attack, sorry if I don't find you and your personal attack arguments worthy of remembering exactly what you said.
So far all you've added was quoting stats (by accident) that Asians don't fail as much as blacks and Latinos, and somehow this was an argument for blacks and Latinos, hell I don't get it either.
Please add something other than being a PC dope that can't see the real world, then I may care for what you have to say at all.
dishonestdebate
Who was i defending?
That's the new justification by racists that if i say your racist i am a PC dope. The truth hurts right? just call yourself a racists and move on.
Again where did i attack fox news? If you hate these articles and nbcnews so much why are you even on this forum? I am honestly curious?
But i dont expect you to actually answer those questions you will probably reply by calling me a PC dope or saying i am leftist you might throw in that the truth hurts because you are just speaking the truth right? Because you have proven with all your facts and statics and daily research that you have posted for us. Happy trolling.
I have better things to do then debate with some one who wont accept facts makes up there own statistics and thinks making racist comments is ok because anyone who calls him out is a PC dope.
@mackman, try the spell check it'll help your cause; just saying!
You can blame white supremacy or you could take responsibility for not taking your education, or lack thereof, more serious as the real causation for your alleged plight. I have a son, who just so happens to be white, who chooses to live in poverty with his wife and three welfare children, having only a 9th grade education, which has most certainly has kept him and his family impoverished. I blame him because he chose the allure of drugs over school.
My point being, regardless of ones color, you're exactly where you want to be 100% of the time. If you don't like whitey keeping you down then do something about it. Set goals and achieve them one at a time; it's called life, it's hard work, or you can hold on to that victim mentality of yours for dear life because I'm sure the government check is still in the mail, for now.
LOL and again Hakstarr with a personal attack post but nothing germane to the article at hand. Poor little libby got his feelings hurt.
It's too bad you are the example of my moniker, you could care less about being honest at all, you just care about your ideology.
Once again, I hold Jim Spence in the highest esteem; your cometary is worthy of publication and for presentation to all who care about this great nation.
I bid you well sir!
Let's make sure everyone understands what is really happening. Blacks blame whites for their financial plight because of the practice of enslaving another race that ended more than 150 years ago. They consider their position so much worse than any other race even though nearly every since race, including whites, could probably trace their lineage back and find slavery.
Because their ancestors may have been a slave, the present blacks feel the whites "owe" them. So there they stand with their hand out looking for the support they are entitled to. The government tries to give them some support in an effort to help them with temporary assistance. They turn the temporary program into a way of life and demand more from those they hate.
What logical sense is there to keep going back to the prostitute that gave your grandfather an STD and demanding a "freebie"?
dishonestdebate
LOL you actually posted what i predicted.
wtf are you talking about? now your calling me a libby? i am not a libby but obviously you would call me that since i dont fit your exact view points typical rant of some one with no argument "call them a libby that will show em!" I am independent i vote according to some ones record not party. I voted for republican on the local senate level last election but i guess that does not matter to you because i am a libby since my views dont line up with yours.
Seriously? i am the one posting facts your the one posting opinions you have not posted one fact on this forum if you have i would like to see it. All have done is accuse me of being a "libby" You are also the one accusing a whole race of being lazy not and wanting to work that's what you call some ones ideology. Get your facts straight.
Again if you hate "libby" so much why are you on this forum? Happy trolling.
When you have to point out the ONE time you voted cross party, that makes you partisan, dope. Nice try. "I have a black friend, so I'm not racist" do you say that to people too?
And you haven't posted any facts.
Wow Jim, that's an incredible and eye opening bit of information. Deep down, I think everyone here knows that you are dead on. Our country has lost it's way. We've become lazy and morally corrupt. Even worse, we are so very petty. We consider our own wants, and our political affiliations to be more precious the needs of our fellow man. Many Americans will gladly abide the destruction of their own economy for a few extra dollars. We call it "caring for the poor". Many of our citizens will turn a blind eye to a political criminal just to support "their guy", no matter how many lives are devastated. The rhetoric of today shows a disturbing trend that satisfying the wants of a certain interest groups far exceed the importance of caring for our sons and daughters, and raising them in a reasonable environment that allows children to be children. Even worse, our own lust for convenience exceeds even the right of our children to live....but we have nice ways to make that sound like something "bigger" too. We don't call anything what it is anymore. We aren't honest about anything. You will not find a discussion today with even an ounce of honesty without somebody being branded a racist or a bigot. If we don't acknowledge our problems, how could we possibly solve them?
I could go on all day, but I'll try to wrap it upt. I'll just say that I don't have much hope for America. We have lost our way, we've lost our values, and our people are doing everything they can to throw our culture away. For a people to throw their own culture away is one of the most tragic things I can imagine. Culture is precious, no matter who you are. Tradition should be honored, not vilified. You've got to know where you came from, even if that place isn't free from blemishes. We've forgotten the lessons learned from the past. We prefer shallow, "catch phrases" to actual critical thought. We dehumanize other humans to feel better about what we are doing. Nobody has any interest in finding any solution to anything. Winning the argument is the name of the game, even though we don't actually listen to what one another is saying. We've got endless excuses, though.
I mourn for my country. I don't see how we could possibly walk away from the things we've done out of pure selfishness. Nobody cares as long as their bottom line isn't affected. When we do care about something, it's to feed our own egos most of the time. I wish I had more hope for us, but a people as vile as we are cannot prosper.
Oh, and like you said, we aren't too bright these days.
dishonestdebate
So now you know my voting record? wow you are dumb. I suggest you stop making assumptions your just making yourself look more like an ignorant bigot.
lol Nice projecting on me though.
Again why do you post on this forum? Why do you post on these forums? Are you going to answer that question or just respond with more ignorant comments?
Ummm, you stated what it was dope.
Russell -
That sentence sums up that typical mentality in this country in a nutshell.
You also summed up Hakstarr perfectly, which is sad. Great post Russell, too bad no body that disagrees with you will read past the first two lines, like Hakstarr.
Mackman said: "But I'll drop some TRUTH on you. The main cause of the above stated conditions is, and always has been, WHITE SUPREMACY!! Hundreds, upon hundreds of years of OPPRESSION, SEGREGATION, DISCRIMINATION, POOR HOUSING, POOR SCHOOLS, and racist POLITICIANS, and POLICE."
First, I'm not quite sure how there have been "hundreds upon hundreds of year" of oppression when this country is barely over 200 years-old, but I get that hyperbole suits your argument.
Second, you most certainly do view yourself as a victim so stop lying about it and just own it.
And last, since we're "dropping some truth" here's a little for you: The day Europeans began buying slaves from the black African slave-masters and started importing them to the U.S., that was a day that this country will live to regret forever. It was akin to introducing a predatory foreign species into an ecosystem that can't support or tolerate it.
Conservatives = Host
Liberals and their weak-minded, self-entitled voting base = Parasites
If, along with their food stamps, welfare checks, housing and utilitiy subsidy, etc. checks, you gave (gave, as in free of charge) these people buckets of paint, brushes, trash bags, etc., to help clean up their neighborhoods (they supply the elbow grease since they're not working anyway), they would look at you and say (1) what is this stuff for and (2) YOU EXPECT ME TO DO WHAT???????????
As for Mackman's comment about WHITE SUPREMACY being the cause of all the conditions in Camden, I would direct him to all the African countries being ruled by African leaders. One only need look at all the tribal conflicts, mass starvation, rapes, crime, genocide, corruption, unsanitary, primitive conditons, lack of educational opportunities, and on and on and on, that the black leaders foist on their black countrymen to know that white supremacy is a silly, unsubstantiated argument.
So many of those African countries have incredible resources and riches and could be fantastic, self-supporting independent countries. There is no "white supremacy" in those countries and yet they still can't make it work. Why? How many of those countries have the blacks taken over after infrastructure, schools, roads, hospitals, etc. were established by others and were ultimately run into the ground and thrust into constant turmoil and lawlessness because of the incompetence, corruption and nepotism of their black leaders. Blacks preying on blacks and yet it's always someone else's fault. Very sad.
Read about the impact illegal aliens have on Black Americans:
http://www.law.umaryland.edu/marshall/usccr/documents/cr12im2010.pdf
I have an idea! Why don't we tax our corporations even more, and promote more unions so we can drive more of them out of business and create even MORE Camdens! Can anybody say Detroit?
Oh wait, I'm sorry... let's only tax the SUCCESSFUL corporations because, after all, those people are just plain evil and they can afford to pay more. Oh wait, they just might think that it's unfair to punish them for their success... so they will just leave the country altogether and set up shop in China or India in this global economy. And THEN we can create even more Camdens and Detroits.
Wow, these are such great ideas - I should become a liberal!
I wonder what the number of the 47% hispanic population are in this country illegally? I wonder what's the number of black and hispanics that are completely or nearly illiterate??? What's the number of folks that even have a high school diploma??? How much of this population are people who were teen parents who breed more teen parents that breed even more unmarried and uneducated teen parents???? What are the EXACT numbers of the black and hispanic population that are HARDCORE GANGBANGERS who do not value life at all much less themselves, other people or even their own families????? How many in this population buy into the idea that it's fine, cool and their RIGHT to screw indiscriminately and procreate with absolutely no thought to any of the multitude of consequences???? How many have any clue what so ever what personal responsibilty and accountability even mean?????
We need to start with deporting ALL the damned illegals. Then folks have to be held accountable for their own actions!!!!! How about parents actually care for their kids, get their butts in school and ON BIRTH CONTROL if they can't practice self control!!!!! Maybe it's time to force all to be on birth control until they are legaly married and have completed parenting classes then have to get a license to procreate!!!! How about we deglorify gangbanging??? Increase and stiffen the laws and penalities for gang violence and crime????? How about making living off welfare and food stamps an EMBARRASEMENT, a thing to be AVOIDED instead of the desired lifestyle??????? How about as a nation we DEMAND accountablity and punishment for wrongdoing from our cities and our countrys' leadership???????
We need to STOP funding wars in other countries. STOP giving $$$$$ billions to foreign terrorist groups. START taking care of our own citizens NOT illegals who are TOO COWARDLY to stay and fight for change and reform in their OWN COUNTRIES?????? Some have stated that it's "white supremacy" that is to blame for troubled cities like Camden. BULLSHYTE!!!!!! It's due to all the things I've said here and more. IT IS politics, greed, laziness, sloth, and a whole lot of people refusing to take personal responsibility and accountability for their own actions and behaviors!!!!!!! It's so much about GREED driving jobs to third world countries as well. We all need to do our best NOT to buy foreign made goods but that's damned near impossible anymore!!!!! All citizens need to stand up and tell our politicans we are damned sick and tired of it!!!!!!!!!
impeach the whole dam house
Yup, the whole damn WHITE HOUSE!
Jim Spence for President.............and don't any of you people ever go to work?
The place needs a new name...'New Camden' is my idea..and a fresh start, using a lot of money...there is too much history, there..Walt Whitman is buried there, with the name Jim Morrison carved in the tree above the Whitman grave by the name's owner...Campbel's Soup is from there, my father installed the first Bell Telephone, there...and I was born there. Should be saved for no other reason than that.
The place needs to be bulldozed - and made into a parking lot. We can leave the historical sites (they should be good for a month or two before somebody steals whatever plaques we put up)
You were born there - they rebuilt part of the Victrola factory and made it condos - Do you live there now? Why not? Gotta start somewhere... What's the matter, afraid of getting shot or burned?
Rowan/Rutgers is trying but them, like Campbells are slowly losing ground to the criminals. Tax payers are fed up with picking up the tab - they to will leave soon.
Camden needs to save itself
More federal monies will do nothing and especially in the longer term. People within gotta start making better individual decisions and that's basically it. We have the same problem in Chicago and it too deserves finding ways to help themselves. Throwing more money has not or will not solve the problems.
Makes you wonder how Bill Gates and the other filthy rich head overseas to help the poor when there is so much of it right here. Imagine what the children in the poorest areas feel when they see someone spend 4.2 million dollars on just one car. There is just to much inequality between the haves and the haves not. I am sick and tired of hearing all the crap raised from the wealthy when the minimum wage is brought up, you rich scum just try these days to live on 7.25 an hour. I have managed to live my life on small wages because even though I did not finish high school I did learn a trade that always paid well above the crapy stipend the government says a person can live on. I have no sympathy forneither small or large business owners who pay less than 10.00 per hour. These slave owning company's use human beings to gain their own riches at these people expense. I do exclude any mom/pop stores who hire part time school kids as this is the way for them to learn how to survive in this dog eat dog world. Of course I do recognisee that this will never change because the rich and power call all the shots.
It's been a corrupt crime-ridden dump for well over 40 years. The more money that got tossed at it, the worse it got.
Rob99, couldn't agree with you more. You are absolutely correct. Throwing money at the problem will not solve the problem. It will make it worse rather than better. We need to drive social change into the community. That will be the only way to solve these problems. We have the same problems in Detroit, Flint, Saginaw, etc. Look at the common denominator in all of these cities. They are predominately black cultured groups that have high poverty and low educated individuals. High crime rates, low husband-wife couples, high single mother families, low respect for others' lives. We need ministers who are going to speak and hold accountable the need to stand up for yourself and live and act differently. Otherwise, its all talk.
Jerry, I asked a pastor the exact same question several years ago. Our congregation was and is sending groups overseas to foreign lands to build churches, education centers, etc. The answer will not shock you but make you think.
The reason why many groups go to foreign lands to offer assistance is the foreigners will be grateful and change their lives. What has been the results of efforts in the US is a continuation of living off someone else's efforts and no change to the daily life style present before the outreach. It's just a thank you may I have another. Not acceptable.
The Dem party has done a great job of keeping minorities in this type of situation by continuing to 'promise' them 'entitlements', 'give-aways', ect. All the money in the world is not going to change this situation until the people change their attitude. All the BS about the rich, the wealthy, ect is just that! The lie that Obama has spread and that the Libs have embraced is that because people make money somehow takes money out of the pocket of the poor is just crap! The two are not related! Look at all the cities that have had Dem leadership over the years, Camden, Chicago, Detroit, LA, to see the problem. Until you build a environment of support for people to help themselves, to work, to have pride in their own abilities, to 'reject' the welfare state, things will remain the same.
Camden needs a fresh start! Every politician in the city should be tossed to the side and replaced with conservative businessmen who know how to get a project done! This would be with the understanding that there would be no interference from the state or federal government for at least 5 years. Then we could really see the differences between the liberal and conservative dreams!
To me what happened is, the jobs left and the ah, "good(?)" people and those with money left with the jobs, leaving behind the poor and the dregs. I think the city can turn around, but it will take jobs and education, and many years. Don't know if the jobs and education are on the horizon, but at least some are trying. Oh yeah, and round up those "dregs" and thow their asses in jail!
It's a really cool political talking point to blame one party or "those" people who live there. It's cute and sounds so wonderful, but it just isn't true. Those of you who never knew anything but sleeping in a hole or on the street with drug deals happening around and little or no parenting, no help, and no skills can tell me that you will one day awaken and know all you need to know, have reason to trust anyone, and will one day suddenly become a clean, law-abiding, efficient worker who can make a great wage and be functional are going to be a rare group of people. When you can't even walk to a store or ride a bike or get to school (much less sleep in your bed) safely and you eat crap or nothing in a day, you have to scrounge to a bathroom and aren't sure if you will get shot walking out you tend not to get too many job skills or much motivation. You live in fear and you don't expect to live past 18, so why bother to plan for college since your 2nd grade isn't safe or a good place to be.
It isn't about politics or religion. It's about being so removed from the day to day work and school and family and safety that you don't dare to dream or you don't even know a dream exists. This isn't about black people or white people, but about a culture of anger, mistrust (the cops aren't coming to Camden to play Bingo with the residents or keep them safe because it isn't possible right now, so they become adversaries), disappointment, and desperation...and the biggest thing is hopelessness.
So yeah, a few people get out. They had help somewhere along the way. It is a fact. You live there and places like there and you don't get some help in some form and you don't get out. You don't get protection and a decent education, enough to eat to survive, and some kind of motivation and you don't get out. That is a fact. Been there done that. Until you have lived it you need not to make up political crap to justify the misery. Of course people have bad attitudes...you would as well and yes, it's hard to learn to live in a "normal" situation when you have been starving or abused, terrified, and have bugs crawling on you. Is it possible to change this? Yes, but it takes time, and yes, it takes money, people willing to help, organization, and more time to change that culture of anger, survival mode (when you have to scrounge for a meal or a safe sleep it's hard to think of getting job skills...you are in survival mode) bad choices, and misery.
things can change, but it takes more than a one-time cash infusion and that is it. It takes concentrated effort, time, patience, organization and work. Good luck with getting all that when the people are dismissed as lazy and worthless. How nice to dismiss the groups of people among with with the most need...but that is how it has been a long time. The rich have gotten richer and the poor poorer. If some of that money got re-invested into our poorest neighborhoods instead of stashed offshore...if it already had been..and why should they? It would improve their sales and make them more money if the neighborhood were stable.
If I can find some money and time to invest in my neighborhood and I am so far from rich we aren't on the same planet, there is no reason those who have plenty can't. And yes, government can help too, but it's always hampering by fighting and blocking and political schemes. The first step is to remember that although you may not understand why "they" do what they do, "they" are people and deserve as much compassion as anyone else. Some are lazy just as some CEOs are, some are angry just as many of you here obviously are, and they have the same basics needs you all do. The difference is you get enough of them met to get out of survival mode and you have experienced life from an angle many of them haven't. I'm not saying giveaways...I am saying hands up that will help over generations and not just tomorrow. It didn't get this way overnight and the fix will take time...education, housing, work, and more education.
Jerry,
You need to keep up with some of the rich... Bill Gates is one of them, he and his wife give multi millions to all sorts of Charities, including children and homeless benefits every year...
I do not see republicans or democrats coming up with solutions NJ John. You are right that there is a culture of dependence. While it surely exists, it is difficult to say who created it and it will be even harder to fix the problem. The problem is completely systemic where you have a social services industry that makes money off of tax dollars by keeping people poor. You have completely inept workers at these agencies who could not get a job in any other field working their way up to positions of power within these agencies. These people are getting the majority of our tax dollars and not those receiving the assistance. People working at our DSS are some of the most unprofessional and least educated individuals I have ever seen. The system of depedence will not change till the system that depends on their dependence does as well. If that makes sense to any of you.
This is right out of Wikipedia:
Camden, NJ Politics
“As of March 23, 2011, there were a total of 43,893 registered voters in Camden, of which 17,403 (39.6%) were registered as Democrats, 885 (2.0%) were registered as Republicans and 25,601 (58.3%) were registered as Unaffiliated. There were 4 voters registered to other parties.
In the 2008 presidential election, Democrat Barack Obama received 91.1% of the vote here (22,197 cast), ahead of Republican John McCain, who received around 5.0% (1,213 votes), with 24,374 ballots cast among the city's 46,654 registered voters, for a turnout of 52.2%.[101] In the 2004 presidential election, Democrat John Kerry received 84.4% of the vote here (15,914 ballots cast), outpolling Republican George W. Bush, who received around 12.6% (2,368 votes), with 18,858 ballots cast among the city's 37,765 registered voters, for a turnout percentage of 49.9.
In the 2009 gubernatorial election, Democrat Jon Corzine received 85.6% of the vote here (8,700 ballots cast), ahead of both Republican Chris Christie with 5.9% (604 votes) and Independent Chris Daggett with 0.8% (81 votes), with 10,166 ballots cast among the city's 43,165 registered voters, yielding a 23.6% turnout.”
The profiteers, of this world, will chase the lowest wages across the globe. These are the INTERNATIONAL wealthy, no mater where they own homes. They've made themselves above the law, by moving where they MAKE the laws.
yhe city needs to go door to door and tear down all unlivable houses and buildings when there are no more rat infested places to live people move on .. a ghost town attracts a lot of tourists .. poverty and violence does not
Jerry - You're a wise man and don't even know why. The "crap[p]y stipend the government gives you wasn't meant to live off of. It was menat to give SOME temporary support and still encourage you to support yourself through other means. If the governement provided 100% of the support necessary for you there would be no motivation for you to go earn a living for yourself and everybody else would do the same as you and live off the government. However, there are for too many that have learned how to use it as a lifestyle and then add addtional support through illegal drug sales.
Many of the posters have expressed dislike for supporting people who have no desire other than demand more handouts.
It's very simple.
This is what happens when you turn over a city to "them". They destroy it, piece by piece. Similar to how they have destroyed an entire continent.
You can throw all the tax dollars and sociology professors you want at the problem to explain and study it. Won't change a damn thing.
You can look at poverty-stricken cities and claim to see "predominately black cultured groups". However, I suggest that you also consider poverty-stricken WHITE areas, such as Appalachia, where you'll find "predominately white cultured groups". In those areas, they live lives that are as hopeless as in the big cities. This is not a black problem or a white problem. It is an American problem.
To the people who say that throwing money at the problem won't fix things. Well, you're right, to a point. Throwing around the money indiscriminately won't fix things. But, properly targeted, the money could be very effective. Education is the greatest means of advancement in our society. Improve the schools. Spend money on after-school programs where kids can go without fear. Ensure that no school-age child goes hungry. Healthcare. So much more. Given the wealth of our nation, targeted efforts aren't expensive, but they must be sustained. Not one year, not two. But, 20 ... long enough for at least two generations of kids to help break the cycle of poverty.
They need a ban on 16 oz or larger sodas, NO SMOKING CIGARETTES in public parks, Federali-bucking Legalization of Marijuana and a tax on every bullet that enters the City. That'll do it! (Then maybe they can lease the River bed to have nuclear waste and styrofoam containers buried under it and put up a petittion on the President's "We the People" site to have the Keystone Pipeline re-routed to run alongside the River so they could have some temporary jobs!)
What an absolute DISGRACE America has become. (And unfortunately Nobody wants to breaks the mold on that!)
use to be great indian country ...you sure this isnt iraq?
It needs money. Or at least demolish the unused buildings.
Amazing that this city is just 1 hour and few minutes from Wall Street, the Financial Center of the world.
Wall Street Set For Best Two Years Ever, Thanks To Bailout
Huff Post Business
Two agonizing years for the U.S. economy have been some of the best years on record for Wall Street.
After first receiving billions in taxpayer aid, and now ultracheap funding from the Federal Reserve, Wall Street banks are on track to wrap up two of their best years ever.
According to an October estimate, Wall Street firms are set to pay out $144 billion in bonuses this year, to break a record for the second year in a row.
Sorry, I neeed to throw up.......
Camden has been getting bailed out by the rest of New Jerseys taxpayers for decades, The problem is not money and FYI according to the Obama administration Wall Street payed back all the bailout money with interest and the US Government actually turned a nice profit. Another benefit of Wall Street booming is all those teachers and Police and other Government and non governmental unions that invest their pensions plans in Wall street and all the tens of millions of small businesses like myself who have our retirement savings in Wall street are seeing our investment growing.
Domewars
Hundreds of millions of dollars have been funneled through Canden, for decades & here we are..It's not the money it's who controls it. LIBERAL DEMS. By the way millions of Federal money also. Steve Sweeney & George Norquist thank you...
No, it doesn't need any more taxpayer money. Walk thru with a lantern and try to find those who are or would be willing to work, arrest the gang-bangers / drug dealers / criminals / corrupt politicians and their pals, bulldoze the place, and start over.
I agree arrest those who intimidate, sell drugs, and so forth and make it safer. That is a good start.
Great Postings hakstarr. you have shown that you know the facts!
put weapons in the hands of honest law abiding citizens and let them take back their streets and neighborhoods from the gangs and the thieves,, open season with no limit and no legal or civil backlash,, allow the good people of camden to fight along side the police and run the gangs out any gang members who survive go to jail
Great idea. Although, Jesse Jackson and his bullhorn would be in the town square so fast that it would make your head spin!
Oh yea Lou, great idea. Uncontrolled mayhem in the streets, that will make things better.
The number one action that reduces crime is Conceald Carry Permits. This has been proven many times. When are you liberal gun-hating idiots going to learn the facts. Their second amendment rights are what will make the neighborhoods safe.
Mikeo46...
As opposed to the uncontrolled mayhem now??? I agree their "solution" is extreme, but I have to admit in cities like this, there is a certain simple elegance to that idea. It seems to be a war zone already, so maybe it needs to be treated as such.
Great idea... you could make t-shirts that say,"I murdered my awful neighbors in Camden." Not only do all the bad people die, but you could profit from it.
It would be shoplifted out of buisness
You know... Some people just don't want to go to war..
Some people want to wake up in the morning and go to work and come back in the afternoon to play with their kids.
It is sad that in the worlds "awesomest super duper superpower" we still have a mentality of killing each other.
I vote for Average Joe to put his money where his mouth is and move to Camden to bring justice Clint Eastwood style.
averagejoe makes a good point...the good people of Camden are out-gunned and at the mercy of the gangs, criminals, drug pushers and pimps who currently run the streets
The gangs are a reflection of fatherless families. Fatherless families is a result of fatherless families, generation after generation, and the collapse of economic opportunity for low-skill workers. You have to brainwash girls and boys around age 8 about life-path choices that lead to good lives, and then provide the economic opportunity in realtime. Unfortunately, our capitalist system cannot provide job opportunities in realtime, and cities like Camden are hosed until we can evolve one that can.
First, I doubt this statistic, do you have any sort of proof or link to support this assertion? If this "has been proven many times," it shouldn't be too hard to dig up a link.
Second, I'll one up you and say that "good paying jobs" do far more to combat crime than concealed carry permits (additional factors not withstanding, there is no one cause of crime).
As far as supporting documentation for my assertion, i'll get that ball rolling:
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/crimwage.htm
http://www.nij.gov/pubs-sum/000166.htm
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40726.pdf
http://www.econmsu.org/cmt2/lib/c/488/File/Identifying%20the%20Effect%20of%20Unemployment%20on%20Crime.pdf
http://www.economics.uci.edu/files/economics/docs/thdworkshop/w10/klee.pdf
http://www.cepr.org/press/DP2129.htm
http://thestandard.org.nz/crime-leaps-along-with-unemployment/
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=248816
http://www.criminologyresearchcouncil.gov.au/reports/50-89.pdf
Happy Reading!
Seems as though they are presently experiencing that. Arming everybody may be a practical option since the cops can't do their job and don't want any help.
Get our troops OUT of foreign countries and into cities like Camden and guarding the borders from Mexico/USA. Plenty of work right here in this coutry for our service men and women.
were's batman when you need him ??
If we relocate the peoples of Somolia to Camden, NJ then it will become Somolia. It is the culture of the people that make up a community. Give the poor uneducated people a shining city on a hill and it will decay b/c the people will not work hard to keep it nice. Call these statements what you wish but this is the reality of life.
your reality perhaps... Bigot....
Bingo! Just like Detroit. The minorities turned it into a mini third world country beause that is all that they know how to do
This is the problem and cause.
AWOL, that post seems far from racist to me. Its reality. I was born and grew up in a city area in NJ, and my parents worked in factories for little money. But.. they have/had high values, and made sure we learned right from wrong.
Today, I own a home in a nice area far from any city, and hold a professional job. I say that to illustrate that its not how much money you have, its how much will you have to move up in life. I am certainly not a huge success story, but its leagues better than what my parents had. I have two teen kids and will push them to have more than I had.
People in these cities can get future generations out of misery if they set their minds to it. But drugs and crime is too easy to find.
AWOL - you scream racist, but the facts are the facts. How much money do you want to give to those who don't make a living wage? If I make a certain amount of money per year (having finished college AND graduate school), and someone else makes half that, let's look at the following: I don't get $9,000 (at one lump sum) from a tax return (in fact, I am deliriously happy if I don't have to pay in - because I have no dependents) in "Earned Income credit". What the heck is that - Earned Income Credit? $9,000 for having 3 kids they cannot afford. I have two sets of friends - married couples - that did not have children because of economics. THEY - and I - are paying for the irresponsible who DO have children. Why is that? Earned Income Credit - and I am sure that is going to make a lot of people mad, but I am mad that I pay in over $20,000 in taxes, and they wind up getting money for nothing. In addition to that yearly "Bonus", there is foodstamps - $600.00 per month (add another $7,200 onto that $9,000 and that's getting to be a lot = $18,2000). So...... in addition to that $18,2000, there are free lunches for the kids at school AND Medicaid. Free medical care and free prescriptions (which I do think is great). Free dental care - my son's braces - eons ago - were $6,000 (including the dental work necessary before the braces were put on).
I am working to try to keep my house payment paid, utilities on (and don't forget the utility subsidization in many instances), and groceries in my kitchen - because everything named comes out of money I earn. I do not have nearly as much extra cash as people who get assistance. The lady I work with that just got the $9,000 tax return is taking her husband (who draws disability and doesn't work - but draws disability on himself and their three children) and kids on a vacation next week. I cannot afford to go on vacation - and paid in while they got $9,000 back in taxes.
That is absolutely small potatoes. Look at the widespread government subsidies in Detroit, LA, New Orleans, Chicago. Generations of people whose ancestral homes are the projects. They've never seen anybody in their family work, and they're crowded into crime ridden little ratholes just proliferating more and more of the same. There is an entire culture of government money dependence. It's horrible. If these people had to eat from the fruits of their own labor, they wouldn't have the time to sit and do nothing and expect a free handout. As it is, that is all they know. It is a terrible problem, and I don't know how it can ever be fixed. One thing is for certain, throwing money at it doesn't help. Until the people learn to work and be responsible for themselves and their own, nothing is going to change.
The politicians who use this dependence on government dole do not pay for this out of their pockets - they wouldn't! They sure don't mind using tax payer money, though. All the beneficence touted by those to "Help" (yeah, look at how it has helped - no one knows how to work; parents no longer marry to keep the checks coming, and the family is disintegrating) is done at taxpayer expense to pander for votes. These people don't realize the things they are taking is like poison - it isn't helping them; it is enslaving them.
so they received $20K amongst 4 people & you think they have something? that is total squalor. consider yourself delirious if that's getting ahead.
for everyone saying that they worked harder & they'll show their children how to work even harder...great. it's competition & that's lovely. in fact, i don't know any other way to ensure a decent life/survival but to work harder.
at the same time, that working harder mantra excludes someone else.
@decimus & anyone else who agreed to the comment about the shining city on the hill being taken over by a population that doesn't know how to maintain a city on the hill, of course rubble will be the result. we don't have to travel to somolia--we can go right to the appalachians & get similar results.
bonus tip for all you folks claiming minorities are to blame...check out the FHA's Redlining efforts. i wonder how that effected neighborhoods.
/stand
/clap
your on spot Drowning river.
It's a shame how some will always blame crime on color.
people have been doing it since the dawn of time, and they've been wrong since then too!
shaunb:
My life would improve dramatically if someone popped me with $22,000 extra per year extra in addition to what I earn!!! Not you? The people to whom I was referring (and I really like them personally) get disability for the husband and kids; the Mom works (hard) and earns a salary; and they're getting that much extra per year. I do not see the "Compassion" in that when it comes from the pockets of others. Obviously, if $22,000 per year doesn't affect you one way or the other, you and I don't have anything to discuss anyway. You don't understand me.
My taxes are higher because I don't have the dependents; therefore, with a masters degree I make less money than a high-school graduate. Something not right about that.
Do you have to be a high school graduate to receive the $22K bonus? If so, most of those receiving need to be eliminated. Of course they are forced to quit school because of the rich - they are forced to commit crimes because of the rich - they are forced to be drug addicts because of the rich.
Isn't it amazing how much personal control the rich have over the poor?
Because the rich have money the poor can't afford personal responsibility.
Dam, they must have a lot of "thugs and degenerates" living there for it to have gotten that bad. What a shame that "they" choose to behave so badly. I think the people that have jobs and raise their kids right should just declare war on the violent animals that have destroyed their once lovely town.
The war would be need on the "people" who control Camden, not the poor people who are trapped there by corrupt Politicians!
The good people left. The poor there trapped themselves when they voted for politicians who gave them handouts instead of solutions. There is no free ride. If you do not believe that look at detroit and Camden.
notafan -- you hit the nail right on it's pointy head. Therein lie many of our problems.
What handouts did the CITY of Camden give out? Soup kitchens?? maybe a health clinic? Last I checked CITIES did not give out foodstamps or gov. checks.
Air, are you serious.....what 'handouts' did the people in Camden get? Money, Money, giveaways, entitlements, a culture of dependence on the government. Wake up Man!
The death of Camden began when Campbell's decided to move their manufacturing to another state and then RCA moved their manufacturing to another country
Jersey, Facts just confuse some here. It is much easier to blame those minorities than to deal with pesky facts. Like more red state's receive government assistance than blue state's. Pesky facts.....
Dman, but the blue states receive more due to their poulations. Stop reporting only half of the facts.
Regardless, what does that have to do with this story? This is not a partisan issue, as any solution would benefit people regardless of their party, just as ignoring the problem is hurting people without knowing their affiliation. FYI, those in Camden who had kids killed recently don't care about your biased and tired politican talking points. Only you do. They would prefer solutions, and solutions are not found in your ignorant and divisive comments.
People like you are the problem, not Republicans and Democrats.
Actually 'Dman' and 'Jersey Michael' is correct. I lived in Upstate NY (A red county). it has been losing Jobs every year. Crime is going up and poverty is on the rise. In fact, Most are on assistance. The Majority there is not black. Blacks make up approxiamately 7%, while whites make up 91%.
Jersey - The death of Camden didn't start when Campbell's and RCA moved out. That is when you noticed it. There had to be an underlying reason for them to move besides your idea of pure greed. Believe it or not it costs money to move to a new factory in a new location. It's not as simple as merely abandoning the old plant.
How about this, crime was climbing or taxes were becoming too burdensome or they needed more room to expand or the unions were demanding more than from their competition or some combination of all of the above.
Believe it or not businesses are in it for the satisfaction of many (throught their products) and not the satisfaction of a few (for their paychecks). But while they are trying to satisfy the market they want to make money for themselves.
No doubt this is all honky's fault
I was waiting for the race card. Look at the asian and jewish communities. Why are they not decayed like Camdens. Going to wait long and hard for a handout to save a culture that will not become economically independent. All the people of the USA are in the same boat now. It does not matter what you look like anymore. Without ambition and education we are not going to make it ourselves.
really look at the hassidic community,they live like pigs waiting for the eternal day. in the meantime they suck the surroundind areas dry. the south bronx was largely jewish owned then they ran it ito the ground and who moved in, the low lifes. EVERYONE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR WHERE THEY LIVE AND WHAT ITS FUTURE BECOMES!!!!!!!
Hope doesn't pay the bills, personal ambition, drive, intelligence and motivation are the tools needed to get skills so a good job can be obtained. Waiting for the handout is a trap that far too many are held prisoner by.
The 'safety net' preached up by the arrogant self righteous liberals is a death trap, stay out of it at all costs.
Yeah Phil, Liberals want every one in the safety net. Most liberals believe in giving people a hand up, Not a hand out....
Phil, I am a Republican voting liberal. How would you describe me? I believe in our ability to manage our own affairs, hate the idea of someone in Washington controlling me, but also believe that we all have individual mandates to give of ourselves. Please note, goverment taxation is not us giving, it's the government taking and does not count as a "good" act. I prefer to keep my money and give to those I feel I should....on my own terms.
My point is that being liberal is not the issue. Eventually, I feel that more truely liberal people will see that the Democrat party does not support their ideals any longer. It is no longer the party of bra burning, pot smoking hippies. It is now the party of government intrusion and moral policy management, though they do still tend to smell bad (i.e. OWS).
Please direct your comments to the appropriate sub group, as you will run people like me off. True liberals need a new political home, so give them one. You'll find a lot of them out there, and they are no longer welcome in the Democrat party.....too damn much animosity in there.
All this being said, I still don't see what politics has to do with this story. This is a story about a collection of unmotived and irresponsible beings, that continue to breed more unmotivated and irresponsible beings. Send in the DEA in force, destroy the destructive lifestyle they have created, and make them change, go to prison, or die.....those are the choices we are all faced with. We should not let them skate by while taking our taxes that were intended for something good.
Camden is not the victim here, we are.
Having been to Camden a couple of dozen times to see the jam bands we enjoy at the Tweeters Waterfront center, I have seen the misery caused by the relentless grinding poverty in person. On our first trip there we stopped to pickup some KFC on the main road in, and imagine our shock when the drive through was a rotating cylinder of some sort of bullet proof clear acrylic material to put your cash in and receive your purchase from. If you must go there be absolutely sure of your directions as one wrong turn could land you in a quite dangerous place.
Imagine my surprise when, after driving through what looks suspiciously like Beirut, I pull into the parking lot of the Tweeter Center, only to be told that to park there, I must pay $50 (take your pick...park here, or park on the street). How welcoming.
We park...and tickets are $125. Sheesh.
So....a few thousand people pay at least $200. and this goes on most nights of the week...
Where are the benefits to the community?? Everyone keeps talking about businesses leaving, but no one seems to want to talk about the businesses that are THERE, doing a booming business. Are they paying back to the community??
Reminds me of the casinos in AC....one block from the 'opulence' and there's SLUMS.
F'n parasites...sucking the host dry.
Funny how the liberal press will never state the obvious. All major cities that have very high crime rates per capita are heavily black and hispanic infested. A fact that is known but not allowed to be spoken about. As we all know, black and brown are all law abiding and industrious.
It is sad that pure homo sapiens from the homo erectus tree are this way. Those from the neanderthal and peking man do much better. Africa has its pit falls and south america has lots of indian blood. Being successful in life can be luck but hard work is the only way and the individual must achieve it all by yourself or win a lottery.
So decimus, what you are saying is the only reason for Camden's predicament is because the people who live there are lazy and black. Am I correct?
"Infested" as in the term used for rats and mice...
let me ask you something... what good is it speaking about them like that?!
People tend to behave the way they are treated. While white ancestors owned land and were ENCOURAGED to acquire assets, blacks were not permitted to even walk into the front entrance of an establishment, sit in the same seats or even dream of building a future for themselves. They were treated like animals, SHOT, HUNG, WHIPPED, KILLED, RAPED, INSULTED, SPAT ON, BEATEN, HUMILIATED FOR DECADES!!!! This wasn't..the 1700's or 1800'S alone...this was way into the 1970's... Everything was designed to instill in their minds and lifestyle that they were worthless...no value...no future! They received the worst jobs, the worst pay, the worst homes, the worst education, the worst opportunities over and over and over again, at all levels of society! So tell...which white community, or jewish, chinese or other experienced this centuries long struggle in America?! People who had to fight for freedom, then fight for rights, and after still have to fight and fight and fight...
there is a fatigue that sets in my friend...when you see so much against you. you get tired...you get depressed...you get angry...because the world wants you to hurry up and die, rot away. like rats...infesting your environment.
You are not racist...you're just thinking the way you learnt to think.
I am black just like them. but my life experiences came from a different place. I learnt to think differently and so I am different. behave different. I se a different future for me.
Do you understand?
It's a cultural problem. They think its alright to have as many babies as possible with no commitment to any family other than their drug dealing gangs. And maybe laziness makes it easier to make money selling drugs. But being black doesn't really have anything to do with it. They all choose to live the life they are.
No...its an education problem...its all a conditioning of the mind...give a man a fish and he will return for another because he sees what you can do for him...teach him to fish and soon he will see what he is capable of doing for himself.
this is not rocket science...the best communities in america go hand in hand with the best education.
many people are saying the fault lies with the manufacturing jobs leaving... has anyone examined WHY THEY LEFT?? Identify those issues, fix them, and attract the businesses back to the area. Businesses aren't going to be attracted to areas that are crime-ridden and where local government is corrupt. Only the citizens can fix this. Andre Robley - you are my hero. You speak TRUTH. If only there were more people like you in Camden willing to stand up and lead by example - Camden would rise from the ashes. The beauty and the burden of America is FREEDOM. Freedom requires personal responsibility. Freedom requires you to maintain it, because others will seek to take it from you. You maintain freedom by being well informed, active and participating in activities that ensure freedom. That my friends, requires work. Work you might not get paid for in $$ - but in maintaining freedom. Work to put food on the table, work to care for your family, work to care for your community, work to care for your country... these are the only ways to maintain your freedoms. They all require WORK.
Andre,
I agree and thanks for not inflaming a situation here that could have easily been inflamed.
However, and I ask this humbly as a white middle aged man who's been poor and risen above it. How are we to instill in people an education, when at least from my perspective, the community at large does not respect, appreciate, desire an education. Yes, inner city schools tend to be more poorly staffed, funded etc... However, I think that's a chicken and egg question as well, having known educators who wanted to be placed in these situations to make a difference only to get burned out in a couple years, by the apathy and dis-respect rampant in these systems. Sure there are a few who seek opportunities and thust rarely succeed, but a huge problem I myself have, is the overall community(people of same age etc..) tends to look down on those who strive for success in education, and many are bullied etc... Violence is glorified, drug dealing is akin to being a rock star or celebrity. I realize there is a certain self fulfilling prophecy in this as many see no long term ability to succeed to they would rather live fast and well versus putting in the work to maybe succeed. However, the rest of us in America have no guarantees in life. We invest ourselves into education both in time, and monies(college) to try to gain the knowledge needed to start certain carreers. Not being black/hispanic myself I cannot identify with how racism may play into potential boundries or road blocks to their chances, but I can say that giving up and resorting to crime or apathy just makes the downward spiral all the more evident. I also see a lot of programs that afford better chances and opportunities for minorities such as affirmative action, and many scholarships for minorites only. So while yes there surely is racism against minorities, that is not an excuse to give up or not succeed. It's a hurdle to be overcome. I'll also say that minorities are some of the most openly racist people I've known and have experienced racism from minorites on many occasions. So I think racism goes both ways, and I think at this point in our history we can appreciate yes there have been mis-treatments of people based on race alone, history is in the past and we can only effect the present and future. If people won't take responsibility for themselves(black, white, hispanic, whomever) they will likely end up poor and in bad situations. Trying to succeed will not always work, but if enough people try, the expectations of the community will be raised and as a whole everyone in that community will benefit. The reverse is true and on display here in Camden and in Detroit etc... Feeling sorry for themselves because they are poor, will not get them out of poverty. Hard work and education are the only possible ways out, but those values are NOT respected by most in these communities. I'm sorry, but that's the truth. Most want an easy way out, and unfortunately, there is not an easy solution.
Money alone does not equate to a good education, Further the student must have a desire to learn or you are just wasting you time and money, New Jersey spends more money on education than most states, Further New Jersey funds poor school districts with additional funding at the expense of the districts with higher income levels, New Jersey pumps more money into education funding today that it ever has, Money/Funding is not the problem.
You didn't learnt so guud. Hoam skuult?
Wallowing in the past instead of planning for the future is the problem.
"So tell...which white community, or jewish, chinese or other experienced this centuries long struggle in America?! People who had to fight for freedom, then fight for rights, and after still have to fight and fight and fight..."
The Holocaust...enough said.
Andre,
You live with blinders...but you speak of the way people have "learnt" to think - when will those people in Camden learn that no one has oppressed them but themselves and their inability to realize that THEY themselves are responsible for the community in which they live?
Money does NOT equal safety. Money does NOT equal good education. Money does NOT equal self respect.
Pouring money into a community that does not 'own' these characteristics is a waste.
I worked in the school system, and heard on a daily basis, black students being called 'white' by fellow black students because they excelled and worked hard.
You can't blame failure on anyone else - those people who refuse to save themselves are to blame. You can't help those who refuse to help themselves.
That happened in America? News to me!
Andre, unfortunately they don't want to even try to.
Andre, is it possible that people acting responsible built the best education in their communities? You say that the education system causes the behaviors. I say the behaviors cause the education system. If they change their cultural behaviors, their education system will follow. Stop making them the victims.
WOW, GREAT POSTING Andre Robley. It is the Truth!
Andre - I'll agree it's education - to a point. But it is not based as much on the public education system through brick and mortar hallways but the public education system from the streets. It is the mindeset of the people that prevents education from within. Nobody forces them to NOT study and NOT attend classes. And there is not enough personal desire to perform. The most formative years of a child are the first 5. Usually by then the family has instilled whatever standards are expected. When the mother is too busy focusing on trying to provide for the fatherless children that is not society's fault. It was personal choices. When she ignores the kids it instills a mindset. Mos lifeskills are learned at home whereas most academic lessons are learned in the classrooms.
The U.S. Congress sold out the American people (i.e., liquidated the U.S. economy) every month of every year for the last 3 1/2 decades, and the majority of the American people elected them to do this over and over and over again. From the very beginning there should have been balanced trade stipulations and regulatory mechanisms installed into our international Free Trade agreements, designed to keep our trade with other countries in proper balance. I have told the American people time after time after time again that the concept of Free Trade is NOT synonymous with the concept of unregulated trade. It is the first rule or law of cybernetics, the science of feedback, that all complex systems need some form of regulation if they are not to become unbalanced and unstable, and eventually self destruct. I have known all of this since the early 1980s, but I have never been able to get the American people to listen all these years. These corrupt and incompetent politicians in the U.S. Congress have consistently sold out our nation to multinational corporations, which in turn profit from the export of our U.S. jobs and businesses overseas. The American people can go on pointing the finger at who is to blame, but there are always three fingers pointing back at them. The American people were the ones who kept electing and reelecting these corrupt and incompetent politicians to national office, over and over and over again. Just in this last year alone (2012) the U.S. economy has lost over $727 billion due to this U.S. trade imbalance in goods with the rest of the world. Since 1989 these losses amount to roughly $10 TRILLION, and these losses go back every month of every year to the mid 1970s. But do the American people care when they go to the polls and vote? Noooooo, unfortunately not yet !!! And the U.S. economy MUST keep declining as long as this imbalance of U.S. international trade continues to drain it dry. This shortfall in national income is also the main reason behind the massive U.S. government budget deficits all of these years, but now the U.S. government has exhausted its ability to borrow, print and spend more money in order to keep the U.S. economy from bleeding dry. I am completely worn out from trying all these years to persuade the American people on the supreme importance of these economic issues. What else is there to say but have fun with your program "End Times", everyone! (See link below.) - Rick Carter
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c0004.html
you are exactly right.if you look at who is behind the push for free trade its American industrialists like the koch brothers.their push has always been so called free trade and free markets which is just a fancy name for undermining u.s. labors bargaining positions.whats happened is a well orchestrated propaganda campaign by the cato institute and the heritage foundation to convince the American public that we will benefit from free trade when nothing could be further from the truth.its resulted in the largest income disparity our country has ever seen and as you can see crushing poverty for most americans with obscene wealth for a select few
You're almost there, but haven't asked the correct questions yet to draw the inevitable conclusion: To whom has the US economy been sold out to? You surmise it is other nations. This is an intentional misdirection. It is also reasonable to assume that you believe the sole cause and purpose of the Civil War was to abolish slavery. This too was an intentional misdirection. What we are experiencing is the fruition of endeavors of the insanely wealthy to wield absolute power over all people. The Civil War achieved 2 things; conversion of racial slavery to economic slavery, and centralization of governmental power by decimating the authority of the individual states. These are two key elements to domination of a populace. The rest is a domino fall.
Do you think it is mere coincidence that only the extremely wealthy benefit from the export of jobs and industry (look into Mitt Romney's involvement with the Delphi corporation), and that Lincoln was the first Republican president? This isn't a racial thing, it's an economic thing. Slavery wasn't a racial thing either. According to "The Root", 3776 free blacks owned 12,907 slaves as of 1830. Not all of the slaves were black either. It's not a black or white issue, it's a gold issue. It isn't an issue of nations, it's an issue of economic class. You are and always have been manipulated. You always will be. There's nothing you can do about it.
Did you vote for Obama? If you did you have simply hastened the process you decry.
Did you vote for Romney? He IS the process I decry. Are you a ditto head? Because you parrot the party line of the elite's politics without thinking. Since when was the president the sole autocratic authority in US government? You have over 300 congressmen who do the actual dirty work, but misdirect all the blame to one person. Our nation was designed and built to distribute domestic power, and centralize foreign contact to protect us from tyranny. The very first Republican president destroyed that, since obviously, all fault belongs to the president in your eyes. The CSA didn't lose the Civil War, all of us did. The only winners were the industrialist elites. If you aren't one of the 1%, you are most certainly one of their puppets.
rush limbaugh,the cato institue,the heritage foundation,fox news all branches of the same tree.the propaganda arm of the rich.their objective is to lower the standard of living for the majority of americans while raising the wealth of a select few.you saw what happened when romney lost the person in charge of the heritage foundation was replaced
"Did you vote for Obama? If you did you have simply hastened the process you decry."
What a stupid, moronic, insane statement. Camden in been in a slow decline long EFORE President Obama was even born.
Need more ice for your kool-aid,johnQ?...You need to educate yourself,and quit blaming successful people for YOUR lack of productivity.
JPM and JohnQcitizen... you two are both active and aggressive about your beliefs. You both have a political foothold that you believe is correct. You are both right and wrong. The problem we face is everyone wants to blame someone for the problems we face. We need to take action. Boycott any organization that brings most of its goods into America from foreign countries. Walmart is a great example. They are doing what the people are asking, because the people shop there. If people don't go there they will change their ways. They are meeting the publics demands. Right or wrong they are accommodating the general public. I don't like it, but it is free enterprise.
im realistic about changing the publics shopping habits.its not going to happen.nor should it.the public should go after the best bargains possible be it higher quality at a higher price or lower quality at a lower price.what i want to see is a reinstatement of tariffs that gave american manufacturers a chance to compete with third world labor
#10.7- incorrect; John Q, Rick Carter and JMP are all pointing out it is not about blaming successful PEOPLE, but blaming the system which rewards certain success at the expense of 98% of the US and 95% of the rest of the worlds population. Who is the prominent person who used the phrase "new world order" and what is his political affiliation?
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_nwo72.htm
By the time that phrase was a common media meme, the damage had already been done. I bet you think the "free market" is actually "free" or fair!
Help me understand something. If our Congressmen and Congresswomen are so poor at their job, how do they keep their jobs? Does it have to do with the 47% Romney discussed? You know, those dependent on the government for their livelihood? I'll bet is does. I did not vote for Bush the 2nd time, did not vote for McCain, and did vote for Romney. This current administration is bad. Think about the EPA and their regulations on the coal fired plants. Made them a dinosaur. We will lose a lot of jobs because of the shift from coal to natural gas. And when fracking is truly regulated, we'll see higher gas prices and lower gas supplies. And less jobs, more government spending, more people on food stamps, etc. The economy was getting better despite this administration.
JohnQ, please research Clintons part in free trade. This is not a Republican only issue.
i never said free trade was a republican only issue.ive found when both parties agree on anything its awful for most of america because big money contributors are calling in favors owed
How many years does it take the "G" to support people that don't want to get off their @sses and do something to improve. I am not talking about any race here,I am talking all colors and back grounds. The states all over the country are going broke paying out too much for "welfare" The only good that any hand outs does is keep people alive. It was not meant to support people to sit home and make five babies with five different dads. It was not meant for you to never work again. Get off of that lazy @ss and go back to school (it is free)
your view might have some validity if there were help wanted signs or signs looking for people that didnt have the skills to fill those positions.do you see any.of course not.your contention is nothing but nonsense.its misinformation.when 83 percent of college graduates for the years 2009,10 and 11 havent been able to find full time work an education isnt the problem.but it sounds good.oh that stat came from the financial channel
The unemployment rate for college grads in usable degrees such as engineering and medical of any tract is less than 6%. Liberal arts, political science and literature degrees not so much.
the 3 ladies what work at the chevron station in kentucky i buy gas from all have degrees in chemistry and the guy that loaded my truck in arizona has a mechanical engineering degree with 25 years experience.after looking for work until his unemployment ran out he settled for that.your contention that 94 percent of college graduates have useless degrees is absurd.the contention that if you apply yourself and get a good education youll be a success in america is no longer true.we would all like to believe that america is the land of opportunity it no longer is.you can thank free trade
johnQ - unfortunately, just because people hold degrees, does not make them smart or savvy... There are well educated people that never learn to apply what they are taught. Those are probably the people who are now working at gas stations, etc. Having an education doesn't guarantee you a high paying job. Education coupled with skill and competence provides an even HIGHER likelihood of success... the cream will always rise to the top my friend.
Your point might have some validity if Camden just started having this problem in the last 6-8 years, However Camden has been like this for decades, Camdens problems have nothing to do with the unemployment rates of today or yesterday or 10 or 20 years ago.
The number of college grads without a job and the number of older people with college degrees out of work is just further evidence that very few people are ever just handed a good job (I know a few that did, though, and I'm not one of them). If you're willing to work and plan for the future, you will improve your life station no matter where you started. For some it takes more patience and discipline to live below their mean that others, but the premise holds true for everyone.
I am an independent. I believe the government is too large and spends too much money. I believe the government has reached well beyond its needs and created the entitlement problems in America. But at the same time, how do we care for people who really want to work but cannot find a job because the government has created the problem.
Blame Wall Street, big banks, the rich, etc. Sheep is what I call you. Stop the partisan bull. Look around. Don't shop at Wallmart and they will not keep expanding to bring foreign goods to our shopping centers. Demand American goods. Use the economic power you have. Stop crying foul and step up and be counted.
raise tariffs to where germany has them at 19 percent and the walmarts will have a hard time surviving.raise taxes on the rich so that to keep most of their capital they have to invest it in america.while raising tariffs will cost some export jobs itll create many more manufacturing jobs here.chinas learned that lesson.
on a side note with chinas Ascension to the spot of the globes major manufacturer they are just now having to deal with the political unrest generated by huge income disparities.the reinstatement of tariffs would undoubtedly result in the unemployed rioting in china.the leadership in china knows this and is keeping the value of its currency low to keep money and jobs flowing in their direction.when their free trade treaty with india had money and jobs leaving for india they ended it
JohnQ's solution? Don't go to college, it's a waste of time.
"JohnQ's solution? Don't go to college, it's a waste of time"
A baseless response. Rather he was drawing a parallel between those having a higher education, compared to the Job they have to settle for. Now compare that to the situation in 'Camden' when most large employer's have left town, one can understand why the situation is indeed dire.
As Obamas promises of jobs goes unfilled and welfare numbers rise so does crime. This is especially true of blue states run by the party of misfits. Democrats love to keep people down, under their control. Freedom and prosperity diminish. "Hope and Change" is not that great after all.
Ironically, the fat cats on Wall Street are doing very well. Funny. The party of the little guy has done very well for corporate America.....not so much for the little guy.
I learned about towns like Camden from my upbringing in Flint, MI, which is much like Camden. I also learned from my visits to old ghost towns out west. Those old ghost towns came and went with the gold rush. Flint, MI came and went with the auto industry. Camden is going the way of the old ghost towns and my hometown of Flint. Dollars and government programs won't save Camden or Flint anymore than they can resurrect those old west ghost towns. Everything has a life cycle. Life itself is cyclical. Read a book on World History. America is only 236 years old. In a World History textbook, that's about half a page.
picture american manufacturing as a gold mine.when it drys up do does our standard of living.thats why free trade is so destructive.it encourages manufacturers to outsource good paying industrial jobs.corporations are all about profit and theres nothing wrong with that.but weve got to have tariffs to make it more profitable to hire americans then outsource.when the manufacturing jobs return so will the need for college graduates for research and development.right now we have a plethora of college graduates looking for work in empty factories
Manufacturing may return when organized labor groups stop manipulating unsustainable wages and benefits. Source: Hostess.
I agree with your comment johnQcitizen. NAFTA was a watershed piece of legislation that changed the whole gameboard in America. No jobs. . . No future. I don't see that changing in my lifetime, and I'm afraid the continued weakening of the talent pool will put America in a near impossible position to recover from. A service based economy does not work. Manufacturing is what puts a country in a golden economic position for all it's people, and it's future.
The problem is the whole politcal system-Democratic Party, needs to be purged.
The people of Camden keep voting in the same failing political system, time and time again. It is time to put in a fiscal Conservative into office. The city of Camden cannot be helped by more money. The money would end up in the pockets of the people running the city. It's time for change, but the people of Camden have been brainwashed into believing it is not the fault of their elected officials. Get people in who are thinking of the people and not of themselves.
Yes, but here lies the problem- when you have a population that's 95% black and hispanic with 40% living below the poverty line you do not have taxpayers. When you have a city where on average someone is shot every 33 hours businesses won't go there because their customers won't.
While the liberals will blame everyone and everything they can for the plight of these people and those in the cities like Detroit the blame needs to be placed squarely on the residents. Someone gave birth to and raised those thugs committing the crimes, someone raised all those girls to accept having babies without the benefit of someone besides the taxpayers supporting them, someone failed to raise their children to seek a way out and instead destined them and their future generations to poverty.
It might be politically incorrect to point it out but like Detroit the city suffered through "race riots" and like Detroit those riots caused 'white flight', and where the whites go so go their taxpayer dollars. In both cases the minorities left behind failed to pick up the ball and run with it, failed to take the steps of leadership and get their cities going in a better direction. It looks bad that cities with high populations of non-whites usually have much higher rates of poverty and much higher crime rates, but the picture can't be ignored forever.
All I can say is "Liberals are getting what they voted for"!
I hope you all enjoy your "new" country
get out--you are on a sinking ship--any other place would be better than what you have there.
Yeah. I don't know what being so poor you can't afford to move means. No matter how poor you are, God gave you feet. And if I lived there I'd be running fast!
Being that poor means that you don't have the means to walk much less run anywhere!!!! That poor really means not even having shoes to run in and the path way OUT is littered with broken glass, excretement, trash of all sorts, rodents, insects and unfortunately used drug needles. That poor usually means you've also allowed yourself to wallow in the beliefs that will always keep you poor.
"The decision to regionalize the force enraged the Camden Fraternal Order of Police, which has charged the city with union busting. "
wait a minute. The city is going down for the last count and unions are up in arms that the police force will double in size. It's just that extra officers do not add any money to the union. No one is losing their jobs but the new officers are not union members so the union leaders don't see any extra money. Unions are a joke.
Actually it's not doubling in size. They laid off 50% of an already grossly understaffed department and then when crime jumps through the roof claim that their county system will correct it by returning to the previous level. This city is no joke and the county plan is more about politics then law enforcement.
Camden is a Democrat Controlled City in a Democrat Controlled County(Camden County) in a Democrat controlled state.
Adding more cops just allows you to keep track of the crimes more accurately. It won't prevent much crime at all. Maybe petty theft from an increased "presence", and maybe a few homicided by imprisoning some more people, but not enough to change anything. It's a waste of resources.
imagine. Enact some bloomberg type laws but with a self sustaining type twist. Abolish minimum wage for businesses. Curfew: 11 pm mandatory. If you don't have a job or are not currently in school full time, curfew is 8pm.GET A JOB! Limit unemployment benefits. If you put a leach on an elephant and don't tell it that it has to get off any time soon, it will stay there FOREVER
But they don't follow laws already. So if you make a curfew law it won't matter. That's like saying it's illegal for the drug dealers to have guns. I don't think they will care about any laws.
Reading an article like this saddens me to know end, but then I read the comments and I become angry at the stupidity of the people. The negativity. The want of blame instead of the need to fix a bad situation.
1. Jobs dry up. Why? Jobs were taken out of America. By who? Good question, and I would think that you would blame those and look at the date. It was long before Obama was in office.
2. Always criticizing the police. The police can't do anything. They are understaffed. They can't help. Are the citizens around the towns helping. Hell no. Who ya gonna call..ghostbusters! You better start realizing that one bad egg does not make a bad dozen.
3. Everyone is enjoying cutting down the Pope. Fine. However, once again do not take away the entire faith of the people. Who is doing the help here? It is a Catholic Priest! Oh My! If you don't want to be prejudice, stop being prejudice.
4. Realize that Obama can do only so much if he is not backed up by the state. Look to see who is not backing him and possibly pocketing the funds.
5. Time for Change. Quit your complaining and start the change. Stop your to easy blaming everyone else for everything else and start the change. We are getting sick as a people and not healthy!
Where have you been? Didn't you figure out yet that it doesn't matter what the article is about. All the comment sections become political, religious, and race rants.
They should hire the mafia to clean up the streets. It might work.
Amazing to see that none of these comments contain a simple suggestion to end the greatest cause of all of this miserable suffering which is....THE DRUG WAR!!!
Really people, where do you think all of this corruption, lack of desire to improve living standards, and other societal problems are coming from? Here you have all of the elements for wanting to enforce control: a racial biased and unfavorable economic/education system coupled with draconian drug possession laws that oppress these poor people even further, it's no surprise there hasn't been any change over the last 30 years.
Once the drug laws are ended and at least cannabis can be legalized thereby easing the stresses that dire poverty causes, Camden can finally escape this whirlwind of despair.
If this wasn't about people it'd be funny. It's tragic how liberals shove their nirvana down everyone's throat, democrats opportunize, play the race card and run the detroit's and Camden's into the toilet. The same thing is occurring under obama's America. Poverty is growing, blame is cast, solutions punish the producers turning them into takers and the cycle of destruction is on. War on poverty? If the goal of liberals was REALLY to increase poverty instead then Mission Accomplished. Of course the utter failure of their plans is someone else's fault. Sad.
and the dow just hit a record level...jeez. blame obama?
The tax paying people moved out and all that is left is the free loaders. Give me give me,people. What they can't get they just steal rape and kill.
If you live in a town that
hashad manufacturing as its foundation, your town either looks like Camden or it soon will. Manufacturing in America is dead for the most part. Can we still make quality products? Absolutely...for a price. The hourly wage commanded by American workers will greatly exceed that of their foreign counterparts. That increased expense for the manufacturers will be passed on to the customer in the form of higher prices. No, that isn't greed, that is how a business is run. When you and I go to the store, if we see an American made widget for $10 and the exact same widget, made overseas, for $5, which one are we going to buy? No, that isn't greed, that is how we save money.America went through the agricultural era, moved into the industrial era, and is now fully immersed in the information age. Have you ever read a news story about an old company that went out of business because they didn't change with the times? Well, the same thing can happen with American cities that fail to change, and to American workers who refuse to re-invent themselves.
You're skipping some detail. The $10 widget cost $8 dollars to bring to market. The $5 widget cost $1.25 to bring to the same market. The margin is almost double. The result is less economic velocity in the US, spurring a decrease in the standard of living in the lower income brackets by lowering income yet some more, and increasing the standard of living of the top fraction of the top 1%. Yes. It is greed.
No, Nissan didn't miss any detail. The widget $10 costs so much more to bring to market because of the cost of the labor to make it. Here in the US the unions force manufacturers to pay top dollar for low-skilled labor. Bring the costs of the labor down to the actual skill level required and manufacturing in America could come back. But when businesses will be forced to pay almost ten bucks an hour for a counter worker at Mickey D's or stock boys in the supermarket the standard of living will fall not rise because the prices of everything will go up.
Here's a few facts for you.
Private sector union membership in the U.S. is around 11%. It is higher in countries such as Canada (27.5%) and Germany (19%), yet their economies are doing better than the U.S..
Oh, and BTW, the United States is still the largest producer of manufactured goods in the world, by a large margin.
I'm not in any way defending unions but this constant carping about unions being the problem just doesn't align with the facts.
it isn't just about the unions alone (that's only part of the picture) - it is about the cost of doing business in America... there are many factors that go into that (cost of minimum wage, cost of products needed to produce your goods, cost of gas, cost of benefits you are required to provide workers, cost of taxes on your business, cost of meeting the multitude of regulations that may be imposed on your business....) it all adds up and factors into the costs of American products.
Nissan...That's true. But, it's changing. NJ is one of the top two leading hi-tech states. That means unless you have a degree that is comparable to the job in hi-tech industries, you have NO job.
The cost of doing business in the US? BS. The biggest cost to these businesses are the obscene salaries paid to the CEOs. How can any company survive when it earmarks more than 50% of its profits to CEO salaries, bonuses and perks? And how precisely doesn't that jack the cost of these companies goods and services to consumers?
The cost of doing business in America? How about the cost of businesses sticking it to individual American taxpayers? Did Big Oil need that $12 billion in 2012 the House GOP handed them without so much as a blink of an eye?
Individual Americans know when they are being skanked by Big Businesses. The reality is that NO CEO is living in a Camden ghetto or driving a jalopy. Sorry...please stop with the lame ass Poor Rich excuses for greed.
Germany succeeds because the union members are highly-skilled labor, producing high quality goods in a society that in general teaches children civic responsibility. The unions of the Detroit auto workers were protecting high wages, while they producing giant hunks of garbage throughout the 70s. The same thing happened with the steel industry in Pittsburgh. The unions destroyed that industry there. The difference is that local industry invested in Pittsburgh and it didn't decay as badly. You can still see pockets of ghost towns around Pittsburgh, though. Industry is coming back to Detroit now also, but require a more highly skilled laborer, most of which have already left the area.
He meant it's not greed on the part of the consumer, hence his "that's how we save money" comment.
It's too bad we can't make those in poverty see that bearing children while in poverty invariably means those children will spend their lives in poverty.
good luck with that because most people on welfare have more children so thier checks keep increasing, they teach their kids how the system works and it becomes a lifestyle. I know of a family where the last 2 generations were on the system and now they are teaching their kids to be the 3rd Generation on the system, free everything they tell them, school, food, clothes, phone...etc, then they have the nerve to collect from the local church and other charities, these people live better than some of my "middle income" friends. I even offered to give some of these people a job so they can feel self supportive, but they refused to work because they say they will lose more than what they are currently getting for free. What a country we live in......
I see...so anyone not a millionaire should not be entitled to have a family? Or to make decisions on their own of how many children they can have? Would you impose this on millionaires who live off MY tax dollars year after year? You bet not.
As a matter of fact, we all know just why it is HMOs are bilking Americans into medical bankruptcy. Their dirty little secret is how they calculate each of our annual earnings to snare at least 35% of our annual incomes for their piggy profits.
anyone who can't support a family....SHOULDN'T start one!
Cuyong God gave men free will, their choices can determine the consequences of their actions.
The state of NJ has been pumping hundreds of millions of dollars into Camden for decades, Up until a few years ago the NJ State Police maintained a regular presence in Camden, Camdens Politicians all Democrats have a long history of political corruption with many of them finding themselves in prison. The state of NJ funded the State Aquarium in Camden and also the Camden Riversharks home field, The University of Rutgers Camden is also located in Camden plus Cooper Hospital is located in Camden.Basically the residents of NJ who live outside of Camden have been funding Camden for years.
How much money can you pump into Camden before your realize the lack of money is not the problem.
Apparently, some believe that there is no limit to the amount of money that should be thrown at the flaming garbage heap known as Camden. "How come the more money we shovel onto the burning Camden garbage heap, the higher the flames get, Daddy? Shut up and keep shoveling, son, because that's what we get paid to do!".
and your excuses for the poverty in Atlantic City is also throwing money at that city too? What a load of BS you right wingers manufacture. Yeesh...If BS was of any value, you guys would be billionaires by now.
Sorry I am not worth a billion yet but I am worth a little over a million...bring on the hate ewent.
Obama--I am the what President of what?The United States of America @!$%#zam man lets go golfing
ewent, you'd be pretty well off yourself.
The problem in Camden is same as in Detroit; Washington DC; New Orleans etc. Democratic leadership.
and like detroit washington dc and new orleans they are all corrupt, three mayors convicted of corruption then ask that we the tax payers bail them out just so they can elect more corrupt politicains.
bail yourself out
I must say that I am glad none of you run my city